The Ars Amorata Podcast
Ars Amorata is a celebration of the art of seduction, the rebirth of romance, and a lifelong quest for beauty and adventure. Join Zan Perrion and Jordan Luke Collier and a growing number of men around the world who are binding themselves to the mast, raging against mediocrity in all its forms, and defining their lives, themselves, and most importantly their relationships, on their own terms. Subscribe and listen each week to hear: ~ inspiring tales of love, heartbreak, debauchery and seduction across the seven seas, ~ thoughts on the next phase of art and science, ~ intimate and daring interviews with men and women, things you won’t hear anywhere else. Subscribe now and be part of the Ars Amorata podcast and without doubt, you too, will be blessed with a heightened sense of ease, delight, and mischief in your life!
The Ars Amorata Podcast
In Search of the Alabaster Girl - Episode 42
A coffee-fueled round-table discussion about the book, "The Alabaster Girl" by Zan Perrion. Listen in as Zan and his guests explore the themes and concepts of the book in immense and surprising detail. The episodes will be released on a regular basis, so don't forget to subscribe!
In this episode: Part Two of the discussion on the chapter: The Way of Love
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Get the book, "The Alabaster Girl" here: https://bit.ly/3E6TxgV
"In Search of the Alabaster Girl"
Producer: Zan Perrion
Director: Ioan Bati
Editor: Gabriel Coroiu
Sound Editing: Nikolaos Spyratos
Original music: "Tango del'Amor" by DaKsha & Nandi
With: Zan Perrion, Jordan Luke Collier, Rich Thompson, Owen Davis
Created by Affinity Studio (http://www.affinitystudio.ro)
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Ars Amorata is a celebration of the art of seduction, the rebirth of romance, and a lifelong quest for beauty and adventure.
Zan Perrion is internationally recognized as one of the most original and insightful voices on relationships and seduction in the world today. A regular media commentator, he has been widely featured in the international press. Zan is the founder of the Ars Amorata philosophy--a celebration of the art of seduction, the rebirth of romance, and a lifelong quest for beauty and adventure. He is also a co-founder of the Amorati network of men. Zan divides his time between Canada and Romania and can be found at www.zanperrion.com and www.arsamorata.com
Visit the Ars Amorata WEBSITE: http://www.arsamorata.com
Visit the Zan Perrion WEBSITE: http://www.zanperrion.com
Join the Ars Amorata on FACEBOOK Community: https://bit.ly/3E7bDQ5
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Copyright © 2023 Alabaster Communications Inc. All rights reserved
Ars Amorata ®, The Amorati ®, Casa Amorata ®, and the Amorati logo are all registered trademarks of Alabaster Communications Inc.
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Speaker 2:You know, you mentioned the marriage word a moment ago, and with a phrase like forever only exists for those who don't try to force it and wonder what is the commitment, therefore, to you?
Speaker 3:but it also said damage forever. Forever is only true for those who believe it yeah so.
Speaker 3:So people who believe in marriage and really want that and believe that as part of their life force, then it exists. And for the people out there who are against marriage, say, come on, I think marriage is a is a ridiculous institution and it's an old ways of thinking and we should be much more liberated than that. How can you see that? Or the other way marriage is the only way of a man and woman, and blah, blah, blah. And I talk in this, in this, about open relationships, which is all over. The, that's the. The blogosphere is all about. Open relationships is the new, it's a new way to be right? I don't know. So I'm more enlightened.
Speaker 1:I don't know. It seems like you say. I guess it comes back to authenticity and mindfulness again. If people believe in marriage, fully believe in marriage, then it's likely to work where people are getting married because that's what society says they should do, after so, about time, or because they want the wedding, or because of that stuff, but it's not mine. If you chose this, for us it's something ought to do rather than something want to do, then that's artificial and authentic maybe that's why, exactly, marriage is fading these days more.
Speaker 3:If they're stepping forward in marriage as being something that is part of how I have the beauty of life, and I feel like that is it, um, but then that's a great thing and they're stepping forth in something that that is a uh, a beautiful commitment that they've chosen, as opposed to wild society once you get married. So let's just do it. Yeah, right, it's the art, it's the forcing that I'm railing against here and and the demand that others follow our model. It's just, it's, it's a complete demand of the marriage advocate saying if you don't want marriage, you have a fewer commitment, and that's the proper way of a man and woman. And then the open relationship crowd says, oh, come on, that's old ways of thinking and that's a wrong, constricted way of being right because of biology, because of biology and yeah, there's no metogamy in nature and all this kind of stuff, and that's opinion I have no stats on. Could you marry?
Speaker 2:what could you marry?
Speaker 3:yes, I could. Yeah, for whatever, for whatever reasons, of whatever reason for my sense to you it may sense to me, I'll always. I'll always be as true as I can to myself and my choice is what I want now, what she wants now, what she wants, what I want, and what I want might be what she wants. Very likely it's going to make I want, I want her to be happy in life, right, but I always stay congruent to examining myself every day and saying what, who am I and what do I?
Speaker 3:want. What's the best expression of me on this earth, and how can we true to that? Potentials are everywhere. Possibilities are everything.
Speaker 2:I could also become a mountain climber, you never, know, you said something earlier on about this relationship being its own entity, a third entity, that the relationship is not the man or the woman, not or not the merge together. It's something else with its own. It needs its own space, its own agenda, its own boundaries, its own room to breathe yeah can you say a little bit more about that, because it's seems new, abstract, it is abstract and there's no concrete thing in that for me to be able to really describe it.
Speaker 3:It just seems that there's. It's its only living, breathing Entity and it needs its own. And because then you're not, you're not Absconding the identity of each other in blending it all into one big mush pile, there's still an identity, there's still a Dreams and excitement and end of separate but joined paths I don't know how else to say it To completely like give up everything that we thought was Our passions for her and blend it all together. So we have this, okay, we do this, which ends up being just like we'll watch TV every night because we can't do. We, I don't have our own desires, I Think what I wonder?
Speaker 2:because and, matt, you know, I believe that most concepts out of your book come because of the series of trial and practice and head scratch and frustration, and then something new. Imagine that the world view of a relationship being a third entity works better than the world view of yeah, not that, as it has everything else in this chapter.
Speaker 3:It's a Maybe, it's this, maybe it's that, without absolutes.
Speaker 2:You know. So, when you imagine your relationship, that you imagine the third entity, yeah, like a bubble above both of your heads.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, which is a kind of a cool thing to watch. Look at that, I look at we're co-creating. That's a great thing.
Speaker 2:So this is what I want to know, because there's some way that you have of Seeing that could be very useful for others out there.
Speaker 3:I'm in, I'm amazed by relationship, I'm in awe of it. Wow, look at that beautiful, sacred thing created out of nothing. I think, yeah, is it's only thing that I that I can admire the relationship itself? I Admire her and I admire the relationship that we created out of nothing, us two random souls.
Speaker 2:Does it when you think about it and you admire it? Does it have its own like shape and form and color and vibration? I want to get a sense of how you do it like it's just as a full experiment in my life, because maybe it shifts something.
Speaker 3:I Just think that it has its own, it's own expansion and contraction and growth and rhythm, and and it's, it's something that it's a it's a joy to watch it, just like you know, imagine if you, if you think of a career, right, that isn't you, but it is something that's very much a Like it's. It's its own sphere, your careers, it has its own trajectory if you love.
Speaker 2:Some people are their careers and that's a whole other. Well, this is about to live.
Speaker 3:But yeah, but I look at things different. I step aside and say, okay, here's me, and then this career trajectory that I follow, that's. I'm watching that too in in Introspection I'm saying, wow, I was there, or I was there and then my career went. We talk about her careers at their party entity, you and your career. No, well, in general I'm I generalize Right. So I had a career as a financial advisor and had a career then as a is a, and we, we can see that trajectory, how we started, where it went and has its own, its own thing, I think.
Speaker 3:But maybe that's just my weird way of looking at love. This is. I just want to say I Talk about my career in the sense of I am. But if you had a career previous to that for ten years, you, you were a line cook. You wouldn't say I am a line cook, I would say a, I am now. But you can certainly see that there was a career of ten years as a line cook that had that was its own Concept, was it not it's own bubble?
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe this is where I get to the point where where we're doing this psychological, unconscious model of a successful person, and how do they view this? And like.
Speaker 2:I think there's something very If you can abstract yourself from your career or your relationship and look at it from a distance means you have like this emotional distance perhaps, or this way to visualize the past and the future, and that's a massive resource compared to the person who is their career or is their relationship and is tied to. It's like you've got the gift to go to the top of the mountain. Look, look at different areas of your life as if they're separate things that you actually have some power over, to influence, rather than being submerged in relationship or in career all the time without any Power to ship out in any personal identity outside of career or relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think that's what I'm trying to say is like the personal identity is still you on your spiritual journey and the career is an outpouring of that, relationship is an outpouring of that, but you are still on your own, devoted to your own path, your own personal journey. That isn't like I. I need, I need that career or I need that, that relationship to be to, to give him meaning, and Maybe, maybe you do that.
Speaker 2:Oh, Big questions. I don't know so. Were you ever the vice president of such and such company, or did you do the job of?
Speaker 3:Vice President. Yeah, I had a very strong position in it, in a strong company, and uh, I'm notactually.
Speaker 2:I'm just asking if you fully took on the identity of being Vice President, or did you just do the role of Vice President for the world?
Speaker 3:he is, yeah, yeah, my real identity, what I identified with when I sat in the boardroom every day and I had these responsibilities and people working with me and for me and around me. Um, in the corporate side of things, my real identity was that kid sneaking through the forest?
Speaker 3:That's the real guy. And I was out on the weekend. I would sit with my girlfriend and drink some champagne on the balcony, not thinking about the corporation at all. For me it didn't become my identity. I still. My identity was with sitting here and looking out over the city and the balcony here. That's what I identified with.
Speaker 2:That was the real me. So the real you is the you that poses. And yeah, and I did the corporate thing, I went golfing golf terms, and that that wasn't the real me.
Speaker 3:That was me going, I'm going to do, go to the. I got to go do all the things. If I was independently wealthy, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have done all those things. Yeah, I would have sat on the balcony with my girl. That's what I would have done, which is the real me.
Speaker 2:You know, a few days ago I said how, um, actually it seems that the Xan of the chapter with the forests of the north and running around with no shoes, like that sense of gratitude and innocence still permeates who you are today, making sense to me right now, like it's not, like you got eaten up by the normal ways of defining ourselves that we do in society. It's like you entered into the structured world late, yeah, and it's like you're still sneaking around it, but you've got your own sense of freedom and self, yeah. When so many people lose ourselves to being this role in this division of the company and the husband of this woman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I never had that. I never identified myself with that career. I did the career and I was good at it and I enjoyed it, but I never said that'syeah, I would never say that. That's what I am. I'm a commodity commodities analyst.
Speaker 2:I just wonder if this is useful. I'm interested to see you guys because I'm like you would never say you are that. I never had that thought. You know why I said I am that Because I enjoy my job. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. I do my job. That's a pride in your job. But then there's a fight in that.
Speaker 3:There's a fight in like saying you know what? Hey, I'm a lion trainer, I'd like that. Yeah, I'm proud to see it to the world, that that's what.
Speaker 1:I am, but if you left that job you wouldn't be like calling to a bull. I'm not upset about it. I'm traveling four years Exactly, yeah, whereas some people they lost their job or they lost their current relationship, we justthat was their life and they would just kind of break them, which is kind of the unhealthy unless I think you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's why you know we're forced to retire. That's the years that you have no other identity, you have no hobby. What do you do now? You get sick and you die. That happens a lot. They don't want to retire, they want to keep going. So they go and build them a boat. Yeah, and then I'll do so. Yeah, we're talking about careers now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it seems, going back to relationship and this third entity, it seems as if you've got the capacity to step out of the relationship, go through a wonder and look at it and see what it is and see how it's unfolding and see what you might need.
Speaker 3:I'm in awe that. I think that's what a brilliant thing. I really watch it. But I also don't say, okay, how do I feed and water this thing now? I don't think, okay, what needs that I better? Do this more. I don't feel that.
Speaker 2:So what I'm curious about is you say you don't want toyou don't talk aboutyou don't question where the relationship is going. But when you look at your relationship as if it was a third entity, do you check in with her and see if she's looking at the relationship as a third entity, so you've got a shared understanding of what that third entity actually is.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We talk about it all the time, isn't there something? We go for walks and we talk about it all the time, but there's no questioning. I guess, what does it mean? You don't ask what it means, we just like. We like that it is.
Speaker 2:So you both talking about the relationship all the time, you're on the same page about what that entity is and feels like and looks like and what it's doing, but there's never any planning for the future.
Speaker 3:Didn't say that there's nothere's, nothere's, no. How does itthere's no forcing for the future, big difference, plan all you want for the future, say, hey, you know, like in three years now, let's go to Tahiti, let's do that. Do you want to do that baby? Okay, there's planning. That's the wrong way, that. But there's no artificial. Let's make sure this thing keeps going forever and ever and ever. Does that make a distinction?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like the butterfly that the forcing is like. Yeah, and also the butterflies, the relationship, as well as the girl.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you promised me this and I thought that that kind of feeling, yeah, none of that's there. So you're looking at the relationship bubble and thinking, maybe this is love.
Speaker 2:Maybe it all is, yeah. So it's like you're setting plans and talking about oh, this summer we're going to go to Canada and we're going to do this and this and this and this and this, and yeah, if for some last minute reason she can't go because work or her own adventure pops up, then you'll be sad. But it's not like there's the hey. You know, we agree.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, no, no. And maybe I changed my plans because of it. Right, well, I'm not going to go there. You can't go. I'm not going to put a Tahiti if you can't go, baby, it's not like nothing's set in stone like that. There's a fluidity about it. No attachment to alcohol, yeah, yeah, but great desire. I want a happy future. I want to, like, wander the earth, and that's my girl, you know, I want that. That's a great strong thing. It doesn't mean like oh, no, no, no, it can't be behold to any kind of future, because that's a bad thing. It's a different thing. We're saying here you get that right. Yeah, there's the forcing and the promise. The promise I will promise you this and this and this. You don't know that.
Speaker 2:Do you think of your other relationships as third entities as well? You could think of your relationship with that girl from the past, or the business partner, or the early ones.
Speaker 3:No, no, that was very much like a needy scrabbling type of how do we make this work and what do I do? And is it going sideways and we're going to think about this and what's my next steps and how do I fix this? This is making. I'm thinking about it again.
Speaker 2:And it's making sense to me as well in the context of the shoulder to shoulder. The relationship is not like me and you serious looking at the boom, boom, boom, it's all here. It's more like the me and you and we side by side and this thing.
Speaker 3:It's the relationship. Yeah, it's ahead of you. You see that, see that that's a great shared vision.
Speaker 2:We're not imagining that it's only here, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's where it's in. I was saying the break. I called the name. The guy that wrote the prints said exactly that. It says most people think of love as this inwardly facing each other and tensing but he sees it as looking the same direction. I see it as completing by that. That makes sense to me, and you do that with everything, Even when we're talking on the practical stuff of how you go up and talk together.
Speaker 1:it's always side by side, and so a lot of these themes, even when we're talking about desire rather than outcome, we go all the way through relationships, all kinds of constant themes across everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah it is very much an alignment to going in this direction together For as long as it lasts. It could be last till you die. It could be the greatest thing going this direction. There's never this inward staring at each other and there's nothing outside of that. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, you guys get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's a hard thing to describe. I've been trying to say it, talk about it and describe it for years, especially in a chapter about love and relationships, which is all a mystery.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like you're talking about it in a new way with us right now?
Speaker 3:I've thought about these things for a long time, a lot of years. So for me, my struggle is not necessarily that I'm trying to while it is, I'm trying to understand it. I still don't quite understand it, but for me, the big struggle is trying to put words on anything that, to put the questions into good words, to come up with a good question. We sat before this film even started. What is the question here? What's a meaningful question that isn't like well, relationships suck, why do they break Right? So, to put a really interesting new question out, there is a fantastic thing and I'm searching for it, as you guys could tell, trying to explore this as well, because I don't. I don't understand it myself, I don't.
Speaker 2:But I like it. I'm just experimenting, I guess, with this idea of the third entity in my head and thinking about, well, if I met a girl this weekend and there's all this hope, if I'm like this with her, it's like feels just in my body that it's important that we like we get together and things work out, because it's intense and it's between two of us Like we need to talk.
Speaker 2:Everything is a thing here, but if I think of the girl I met at the weekend, it's like well, what is the shape of our relationship right now? Oh, it's kind of like this and like that and if it crashes and burns. I can laugh at it kind of oh, there it was, and then it went for a day and then she never called me back and then that was it. It's not like I'm leaving that thing here, to fill me here, so I'm watching this.
Speaker 3:I'm very much that way. It's like my, my visual is that I'm seeing out here, and always when I'm talking to a girl I just met or a girl I'm with, it's like I'm always talking out here. Can you see that this is, this is what's possible here, this horizon? You see that If we just if we get stepping forward, we can step into that. I don't know what it, it's like for sure out there as opposed to in here. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3:Everything about me, as you guys know, is the is looking out toward treasure. I'm a treasure hunter and the treasure hunt is over there. Let's go. Who's coming In? My conversation with men is like listen, there's a better way to to to who, to have conversations with women, to interact with women. Who's with me? Let's go. Let's go explore. Let's sit in this with these TV cameras and explore, cause there's a bear. What is there? What possible treasure can we find? As a group of men? That's how I feel. I feel like we're like, we're all in this together, we're all like looking out towards that shared possibility of a distant horizon out there. That is, there's treasure out there, guys, and same with the relationship, same with the girl I meet in the bar. Can you not feel that? I can feel it. I'm not talking about wow, what's possible there? And she's here Metaphorically, but also physically.
Speaker 2:It's cool, it's uplifting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the thing makes me feel like I want to be part of that. That's what I want to. That's how I want it to be. There's an ease and delight about it. Yeah, hmm, yeah, no heaviness, no, this is heavy, no construction, but yeah, no, we need to talk. Yeah, oh.
Speaker 2:On the next page you say that a relationship can only last if the two of them view it, with all the requisite wonder and curiosity and communion, as a spiritual journey. Yeah, and by spiritual you mean the spiritual in the broader sense of the word soul search and celebration, salsa lessons A side by side. And here's my question. I'll be it individual, quest for grace, understanding. Yeah, same thing we've been saying this whole time. I just wonder about that word individual.
Speaker 3:Well, like I said, like my identity is not lost and her identity is not lost.
Speaker 3:And the relationships identity is not lost, but bringing together the trinity of the three, it's this great whole. I don't know how to describe it, but there's a personal journey If, if I think a relationship can only last here's my absolute. I'll say, because I say lots of absolutes A relationship can only last if he's on a spiritual journey, whatever that means, and she's on a spiritual journey, their own, personal, separate ones. It might be together in the same, same search of sharing ideas, but he's devoted to his own personal journey and she is too. He's trying to become more excellent and trying to understand his role in life, his, the meaning of his life, the relevance.
Speaker 3:What is the relevance to him? What is what is heart and meaning to him? Where's the music in his experience? And she is too. Because if one of them isn't, if one is saying I'm a secret, I want to understand things, and the other one says I just want to go to work and come home and watch TV, and there's no curiosity in her experience or his experience, that's unequally yoked. As the Bible says, one ox is pulling more than the other at the yolk, it doesn't work.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. I am a bit snagged on the word individual, Because at least maybe we're pointing to something personal and it's something about semantics here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure, because I should have said personal. Maybe. Yeah, Because that's I meant the same thing that you're thinking, Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Individual, because I know that if I'm alone, there's no change in my personal journey. But every so, for every love affair I have, I'm transformed completely, and I can't learn anything about this journey without this, of course.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's what I mean too. It's the same thing, Jordan. It's like we're devoted to our personal quest no matter what, and we're aligned with our loved one. Now we're still devoted to our quest, but it just goes in alignment, it doesn't melt away because, oh no, I want to follow her and her dreams, which is what a lot of guys do, or a lot of women do that too. They want to follow his dreams and they lose any kind of identity. That's when it gets to the point of well, what about me? How can I never get any attention? Because you're still caught up in love, et cetera. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's an important distinction, which is it's not about. One option is to get lost in the personal journey of the other. So it's like don't really make your own identity and all. You get lost in her work or mission and try and jump on that. There's another way, which is I could be so individual that I'm going to go about it all by myself and figure all this out in isolation, and then I think the more beautiful way is like OK, I've got my personal journey, that's it. I'm not going to lose myself for somebody's joy. I'm still on this quest, but I want to do it in as much close contact as other people as possible, because that's where it gets really interesting.
Speaker 3:This is my way of feeling yeah, and there's a strong. There's not a neediness center, but there's a great need to be inspired. Yeah. Neediness is different than need, and your woman wants to feel that you need her. She wants to have it almost Like I don't need you and I'm fine with you, without you. That's a bad energy too. That's the sorry. That was what you said. You called it an enlightened neediness. Individual enlightened neediness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think exactly the same thing as Stephen Covey. He's a very well-owned business leader relationship guy. He's called like dependents, independents and interdependents. And it's almost like the nice guys are dependents and they've got the bad boys, they're independents. And now there's this greater level, since we look at set of threes and screw it. There's this extreme. This extreme and there's another.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I suspect that I mean I haven't read relationship books or business books, but I suspect I'm not the first one to say this kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm certain that there's a this has been explored at an infant item out there and there's all kinds of conversation about a shared experience and what that means, et cetera. It's just my simple observation that I put down in the best language I know how.
Speaker 2:That this concept of enlightened neediness, which is the interdependence like, not independent, like needinesscom. Yeah, and that's not come from me, that's come from a friend, right? I told you all the story of you met a girl with a friend on the same day and I lost out. And he was willing to say I need you. Which feels like the ultimate taboo you know like is, I guess, like the life cycle of a man who wants to improve with women. First of all he'll show up, so that's what's needed. But show up, looking cool.
Speaker 2:Then he'll start telling girls, celebrating women, telling them that he likes them, may even and this is like a big one for the heart Admit I love you. That's like a mass has been a massive leap for me, I know for a lot of other guys. And then to say I fallen in love with you, I am in love with you, and then it's like almost the last remaining plot of land in the empire of independence as a man is I'm gonna cling onto it. I'm gonna cling onto it really hard. It's to say I need you to a woman In that enlightened way which is I need you and don't need you to be me, but I need you to be at my absolute, most glorious, beautiful best as a man, yeah.
Speaker 3:I do need that. I'm best with you. Yeah, I'm best with you. Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I've had it said this way, but someone else who's fantastic on this. It sounds really trite, but it was the end like a big exploration. He says essentially, love is when you bring out the best and then they bring out the best in you. It sounds a bit, you know, fortune cookie like, but that is it surely. Is that what we're trying to get to?
Speaker 3:Because sometimes I've been said before- I've always said before you know, there's nothing new under the sun.
Speaker 1:Nothing I wrote in this book is new to humanity. But he was saying I need you, not because my life is all for that. He's saying I need you because you bring out the best in me and I bring out the best in you. That's the energy he was talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like in you I've experienced a kind of grace and femininity and beauty and fun that is uncommon, and I've been looking for this my entire life. Oh, that's a great thing. Yeah, and I've gotten this far and life has been good. I've had women in my life, I've had relationships. My life is going good and this is the soul searching spiritual journey. It's like you're representing something that I always longed for but never had. I want to ride with that for as much as is needed or true. That's great.
Speaker 1:I'm reminded of the film as good as it gets with Jack Nicholson. I didn't see it, that's great. At one point Helen Helen Hunters in it as well and she's. He's out on a date with her in a restaurant and she's wearing a pocket-op red dress. And in the film he has an obsessive compulsive disorder and he says a lot of things he shouldn't. And he says to her they let you in the house dress. And she says pay me a compliment or I'm leaving. And he says to her he hesitates and he's doing his OCD, doing his OCD and then fixing things on the table.
Speaker 2:He says, make me want to be a better man.
Speaker 1:And she says that's the best couple I've had in my life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's there you go, Exactly where it is.
Speaker 1:How are we doing here? Sometimes I don't think he's interested.