The Ars Amorata Podcast

The Zan and Jordan Show - Episode 2

May 13, 2020 Zan Perrion, Jordan Luke Collier
The Ars Amorata Podcast
The Zan and Jordan Show - Episode 2
Show Notes Transcript

the mythological story that lives within you, perhaps you can bring something of real substance to your village folk.

Today we’re here to remind you that everything - everything - is going to be fine!

In this episode:

00:06:59 - From "order to chaos" movies: we’re in one now!
00:09:39 - Financial fear & positioning yourself for economic downturns
00:15:35 - Reducing your possessions & cleaning out your house
00:20:59 - Zan’s friend who became a monk in Myanmar (that’s not in Europe!)
00:24:58 - Prove to yourself that you can trust life
00:26:07 - On saving up money before living your dream (Casanova)
00:32:06 - Exploring the honest notion of “wandering” (it’s not escapism)
00:35:14 - Humility, obedience, poverty - redefining the “tyranny” of the catholic church
00:39:25 - Meditating on austerity (as a way to handle the anxiety of collapse)
00:42:34 - Your fundamental gift to humanity will never get stripped away
00:54:27 - Noblemen poets on the edges of the nature, praying for verse
01:01:07 - Art is handed to you from the divine; kitsch is art you didn’t receive
01:05:10 - Don’t coach the group! Share your story!
01:07:42 - Depth of perspective: latest-news, complexity theory & the historical perspective
01:23:10 - How to ground your awareness in the miracles of history
01:34:40 - Everybody has a core question that drives their lives
01:39:03 - Zan’s narrative: from nature to culture
01:43:51 - Healing power of nature
01:50:29  - Finding calmness through topography
02:00:40 - Approaching midlife and changing everything 
02:05:55 - Question from a viewer: why did Zan go to Florence if he never left the hotel?
02:12:10 - Self-isolation: essential for the man who wants to understand anything important about his life

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Movie - The Red Violin
Article - Ray Dalio - The Changing World Order

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Jordan:   0:18
all right. I'm just gonna adjust my camera angle. Adjust your attitude. Do I look straight and gc and order? You like beauty? Great. That's what I'm going full. OK, make women that are watching. Have a good time as well, You know, it's best to carry. This is for you women. E had a beautiful message from Deanna. Actually, she reached out and said it was really inspiring and think, Wow, I'm impressed that you watched it. Will

Zan:   0:51
She really liked it a lot. She she she watched you listen to the whole thing and she was very inspired, but she told me so.

Jordan:   1:00
Yeah, that's fantastic. So, um yeah, let's kick off. It's for 4 a.m. Over there where you are.

Zan:   1:12
Yeah, it's for you. But there's been some construction in my building, so I don't mind doing it before the construction starts. So now to this, we after this one, I think will be okay to switch to a more normal. But with this, with this Quarantine shut down. I'm kind of like on a two or three shifts of sleeping anyway, sleeping chunks, you know, which is a natural thing.

Jordan:   1:37
Has your life changed? Currency you came in night? No.

Zan:   1:43
It's like I do the same thing as I do before, except I have less people that I'm that I'm spending time with, you know? Yeah. House, for instance, or something. But other than that, No, not really. Less travel, obviously.

Jordan:   1:57
Yeah. And have you got a quarantine like,

Zan:   2:00
Yeah, we're full on quarantine and Bucharest

Jordan:   2:03
kind of on police in the streets. So narrow.

Zan:   2:05
Yeah, right out my window. And I look out of my studio, I'm on the seventh floor and I looked down in the one of the main intersections in this army vehicles and they're stopping random cars and you have to have a declaration form that says on this date my signatures and carry on. I am going to the grocery store at this location and, you know, and so But I mean, whatever has happened, there's been a few cases Romania and they're going to really start to lift the restrictions soon is what you know. Some of the airlines should start flying getting a couple days. So that scene, they said. But then there's conflict. The report said maybe May 15 today's may may 1st may 1st eso Yeah. So who knows?

Jordan:   2:51
All right, so happy Workers Day. Yeah, exactly, baby. They Yeah, over here is really good. More people are coming out of their houses now, which is a really shame. Oh, the quarantine times have been some of my favorite because we we went out like, wearing masks and washing our hands and all that kind of stuff, But we're going to cafes and restaurants, and they kept a few open and driving down the streets with no other traffic in the road was like being in a zombie movie. And we're the only ones there. And it was ecstatic because I mean, body is beautiful and everything, but it just has a deluge of people and tourists. So everywhere you go, there's usually, you know, if you get a seat in the coffee shop, you're lucky if it's your favorite 10 wow. So you want to really ground it? Yeah. And then the people come out of the coffee shop in there like, thank you for coming on supporting a business. Have a free cake. And here's something you can take home. Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna miss it. You're going to miss the habitable toe ourselves a scarcity of people. I think I wanted to talk today in this. So last time that we talked about Freestone ism, right? Like this kind of tongue in cheek birth, tongue in cheek, but also secretly maybe not really. Birth of a new artistic movement of realigning the arts towards the sublime for the first time in maybe hundreds of years. Um, I wanted to talk a little bit today about the future of the world. Yeah. And what surprised me in the feedback from our first videos is how people are really taken. This is ah, positive spot in a pretty bleak panorama, taking what is about taking are taking our conversation in the Yeah, look at as kind of a bright spot if we're looking out into the sea of future. Like if I open up YouTube in the morning and see what it recommends to me, even my reality tunnel, because we will have a different reality tunnel when we open up YouTube, right? The things that the algorithm things we like is a pretty nerve wracking place, Like on my top. I don't know what you get because I'm Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Column is economic collapse. Then it's like, you know, the five G and the lizard people are gonna get us. And then the next one is It is downhill from there and I might have a playlist of music videos. Are you seeing the same thing?

Zan:   5:38
Microchips in the vaccine that's coming? That's good. Forcing every Yeah. Okay, cool. Cocoa. I pretty much stay away from this stream of of information like, I don't watch a lot of news, you know? Um, yeah, that because I'm not interested because I think it's fascinating. I kind of like that. The that this strange time kind of like it because it puts you on your edge and, you know, makes you obviously reflect. Everyone's reflecting on their lives on their relationships, you know, And it puts you in a really kind of like, Wait a minute. I was like, heading down this path of distraction. And no, nobody's distracted, you know? Except they're distracted into the news cycle. And, yeah, fear mongering get that kind of stuff, you know? So I think it's interesting. Nothing else. Yeah, I kind of like the chaos of it, you know, like for some reason, it's something in me that's like, Wow, how would how do we emerged? What do we How did we sneak through this forest?

Jordan:   6:41
Totally like you've always been talking about these movies, that from order to chaos, right? Got that modern encapsulated everyone in that box, everyone in their place kind of world. And

Zan:   6:53
then it That's interesting because because the movies that really I've always really liked since I was young are the ones that are they go from order to chaos. And that's the office of what we think, right? So, for instance, the sheltering sky, um, or Apocalypse now or dead men or any of these movies or a journey from order to chaos And it fascinates me. How do we cope? And who shows up is with fortitude and in, you know, intestinal fortitude. And who who becomes a leader? Yeah, I just I think it's fascinating.

Jordan:   7:26
So we're in It were in that mythical realm, actually, as a zey global society as a species, right, the old ways kind of broken down, at least temporarily. There's a lot of argument it will go back by and large to what it was before, with a few changes right that might be impediments. Some, um but yeah, we are seeing who was showing up is a leader, um, who is showing up with with more chaos, You know, which is which of your friends you know, when your live stream are actually adding more chaos to the conversation, which people are coming through with a little bit of clarity or a little bit of maybe consolation or shifting the conversation to somewhere a bit. Well, it's

Zan:   8:11
interesting. Interesting, because I think a lot of people are thinking, man, I'm quarantined and I got what I wished for, which is quality time. All right, We wish for quality time with ourselves, so I can, you know, plant that garden and Aiken, you learn that language. I could do this kind of thing, and I bet you there's 90 8% of the people there are kicking themselves and I'm wasting this time. I'm just sitting around watching Netflix and you know, but then you and they see on social media that other people are seem robust and very productive in this time period. But I think it's a natural thing. And when this, when this uncertainty in the air to just kind of sit in and look around, you know? Yeah, and nobody's productive. I think nobody's productive right now. They're all kind of just like looking at their their wife and and the kids and looking up in the air and and going in day to day, you know, and the days of flying by, you know?

Jordan:   9:06
Yeah, well, I think I've seen some psychological research where when when things actually break down and there is chaos and uncertainty, it becomes much harder to focus. It's doing true. There has to be a really intent and a train's mind to actually get and stick on one topic of the moment when there's questions of like, I think, after that, after the virus kicked in and I kind of got a gist of when it's gonna here and how bad might be and who might be affected and you know how it's gonna affect travels and plans and events for the year. The next thing, my attention went to the when she was the economy. That's the next thing looking about collapse and so on on that like prints, that puts the jitters in me on a much bigger level than with.

Zan:   9:50
Yeah, that's the worst contemplated thing that the is worse than the virus. That will be

Jordan:   9:57
so So I have been sitting in the question of the economy and personally, I feel it's weird cause on the one hand I'm relaxed and I feel like perhaps one message for anyone who's really not relaxed or might get shafted by the economic turn that we're going through right now. I'm gonna end up in that. I think that the big thing I can say is something that results a lot of those problems is to find a work that resonates with your heart and that you're committed to no matter, you know, for richer or for poorer. You're gonna be in this line of work. I think so. You're not dependent on what's gonna happen to this company or this sector, or you're working for an aircraft. And there were grounded for three months and you get laid off. But you don't get chosen when they restart with us planes. Whatever, Teoh have a work that, no matter what burns down, you can still apply yourself to. It is kind of so, in other words,

Zan:   10:50
to reassess your career path And if it's your working for someone else and a reliant on that entity, Yeah, and to to to try and shift into more self sufficient type of entrepreneurial type work or

Jordan:   11:09
yes, I make it personal, you know, like under the surface. Right now, I'm kind of anxious about the world situation. And I'm watching the I'm watching the worst doomsday videos on YouTube just to get close to it and see what they're saying. I'm watching the most worst doomsday, Um, what do they call it? Conspiracy theory videos. And then going out for a walk in the light clean in my head and then asking myself, like, Why? Why the conspiracy theory so popular? Right now it's a psychology of that. Why are we Why are millions of people believing who was a nut job a year or two ago more than the prime minister president of your country? Like why this inhuman gaining traction? I'm enquiring into all these different, different things and lose, um, I in the 2000 and eight when that when that economy went down, I got caught basically with my pants down, and it was your business right? Are very uncomfortable I came. I was living in Argentina for a year, spend another three months in Brazil and came back in the April of 2018 and my old plan waas before the kind of nomads era the online era. My old plan was travel for a year. Go back to England, get a job, save up some cash, do again, right? I came back to England, but all of a sudden I had for a very kind of, you know, incentivized good jobs lined up and they all fell through one after the other. I sat in interviews and it was a classic. It's not you, um, which is removing the post. It's not you. It was just not available today in right now. And so So I was, uh I got I got really stressed about it. And then I moved to Spain. I was like, Well, fuck this. No, My old plan plan is not gonna work. I'm gonna go. I went in my car, packed up some of my belongings. I went down to the south of Spain and started a 2.5 year stint in Spain and the first kind of jobs I got were translating and interpreting. So I'd go with a lot of the retired bridge people that were living on the South Coast and goes to the hospital with them and go to the police with them and help them with some some language stuff on. And the problem with that waas was as soon as I arrived in Spain the value of the pound which was very hide, all of a sudden drops and spent. Yeah, these pension is who retired on a healthy pension all of a sudden, realized that they were, you know, right up against the wall in terms of what they could afford a new kind of economy. And I lost my I was they couldn't afford really to pay me to go with them. So I lost at work and I had another job. It was just a domino effect of losing jobs, and for about six months I was earning 400 euros a month in sleeping on a friend's couch on and for another year or so I was cycling tourists around on bikes and teaching a bit of English, and there was a period of that where I lost when the English classes start for the summer, and I lost that income. Um, I was eating rice and beans, and if I had enough change for an onion like that, change my dinner, like, infused with the flavor of onion. So that was kind of my 19 thirties Great Depression period. You know, it was like my version of standing outside waiting for a loaf of bread for three hours that you've been. Yeah, Yeah, that's part of two years in that situation of other, any jobs only subsistence stuff like this. No career path for you here. So that that was a riel period of so seeking. And around that time was I think Tim Ferriss came out on Bond. The first digital nomad podcast came out, and I was listening to these guys like, you know, we started a business, and we live in the Philippines, and it's apple outsource to the Philippines. But we outsourced ourselves for the Philippines, so, yeah, we're just gonna go scuba diving on the weekends, and then we're gonna go back in the office and crush it. I was like, Wow, yeah, we're gonna let that direction. So I felt my I mean, if you're struggling with the with the situation now, like those two years, was a riel, really painful cocoon kind of metamorphosis. And later on I came out of that, which is like, I can't trust, um, that some corporate career partners gonna have my back and last like I could just be expendable every eight or 10 years when there's a downside, I need to come.

Zan:   15:35
It's interesting, you know, like were you North America, where it's built on work and, like work is, is your identity and which is in England to write. But it's it's less so in in other parts of Europe, you know where they'll have siestas in this sort of thing, right? But, um, that's an interesting thing in any noise because of all the stuff we have. And we all know this, you know, that all the accumulation of consumer goods that we have to work so hard that we have to make so much money in North America, you're kind of stuck if you're in most places because it's built on cars. So a big chunk of your life has to be maintaining and paying for and, you know, owning a car or a vehicle, and it's and and so there's people that I would know in Vancouver that would do a two hour commute, you know, from the from the smaller suburb E towns outside of Vancouver and two hours in the morning, through insane traffic to get downtown Vancouver to work and then two hours coming back. And, you know, you asked him. Well, what did you just move into downtown Vancouver? You know, and, uh, well, because I can't afford it. But you could do without a car. You know, you could, like, dispense with that whole gas and you know, all this kind of stuff and pay more rent. Yeah, and I I mean, that's my simplistic approach to it. But simplifying is incredible, like and you know, when you when you were you've been traveling you you have one pair of shoes, you know, and the great thing about having one pair of shoes is you have Yeah, and so it's like when Jordan says, Hey, let's go to this restaurant or let's go for a walk in the park. You put your shoes on because that's all you have. It frees the mind, you know, like if You don't have to think we'll show where the issues are these years, and that's a That's a simplification of simplifying, you know. But it's to simplify and minimize is just phenomenal, you know? And I chased it because I know I was in the corporate world and I chased the house and cars, you know, motorcycles and and and one and I would least one and then And after a couple years of payments, or if I get another one, I wouldn't just like I always had a new captain have a new car so that I can look like I've arrived in the world of adults, you know, incredible, that chasing that. So yeah,

Jordan:   18:13
yeah, that minimalism we working with. We're working with a gentleman in smack Bang in the middle of the United States right now, and he's got that ideal life. You know, the house with a white picket fence and he's have the property often pain into the 401 K and is just absolutely, it's it's textbook. It almost mythical how normal America is living his life and he's on this cusp right now. Do I or do I not leave it all behind. So can I. Is this the question underneath? Like can I do I have the the fortitude of emotions that Aiken deal with myself in the face of whatever comes up in that uncertainty? Because he's left almost five decades in this one context, which is extremely stable, and you say about simplifying your life like some people would just like, Yeah, I'm just gonna get rid of everything and send it will to the skip right, um, or give it away to friends. But that act of actually getting rid of all the stuff that you've emotionally collected, like imagine a record collection. If you start by records at the age of unknown eight or 10 you build up for a number of years to get rid of those pieces where everything I bought tells me a story of a moment in my childhood. Is that you really saying goodbye to the past when you shave off all that stuff?

Zan:   19:33
Yes, super psychological. And it's it, especially since you know, we are spending our lives distracting ourselves from from the notion that someday we're going to die. And you know, there are people who have who have memories in storage for years that they pay a monthly storage and they never in years going open that box and look at these, these, you know, his Mementos. They don't look at it, but they know they have when they know they can look at, you know. And there was something that was strong and me because I was keeping a box of keepsakes since I was a kid like my I still had the knife, for instance, that I used to wear on my side when I was this little, you know, wielding this kid right in it in a in a a deerskin chief that I had made. I sewed it within all like and and And I had that. But then you but you never look at it, you know? And then you think you have the memory of it, which is pretty powerful, you know, And and and so do you need the actual, you know, unusable memento of it, You know, So But, I mean, it's a hard thing because it's really giving up something that's nostalgic for a past and for ah, home or what Once Waas, You know what? We can always go back and curl up around her memories is the idea. Right? Um, so it's a super psychological thing. Like I remembered my friend Patrick, and I tell this quick story I think some people might heard before, but he talked about he had he had houses and lands and businesses in Vancouver on one day. He's, you know, he said, Does this, you know, is this all there is to it? And he decided, Teoh, give it all up. And so he sold All his possessions are rid himself of all his possessions. Quick story. And he reduced himself down to a backpack, 100% everything down to a backpack and and head out off to Europe. So I'm just gonna backpack across Europe, find my myself, right? So he wanted around for a year with only this backpack. But he said, when I got rid of all my possessions, I had this twinge of my stuff, my stuff, my stuff and it just like it was. It was heartbreaking and super hard to do and then assumes is done, and I only a backpack. I was okay, so I'm wandering around Europe with a backpack because I ended up in, uh um uh, Myanmar. And it was snowing, but he was He's wandering and you

Jordan:   22:02
got a long way. A

Zan:   22:03
a year he was wandering and he said there was say, in Burma. Berman guys. Yeah. And there was this Burmese month that he met on a on a trail and he started talking This guy and the Burmese monks is what once you become a monk, if you're trying to find what I'm not religious, you don't have to be religious. So he said, Why not So And he says he could be a monk for a few days or a week or come, you know, really? So he took his, you know, he hide himself to this monastery the next day and he said, I would like to try this and be a month and he said the first thing they did was they took away his backpack. Okay, you surrender this and he said I had the same existential angst is when I gave my positions up. My make houses and cars and boats is of that. And I was like that. But that's my my stuff. My backpack, which is close to his heart and they gave him an orange robe in a wooden bowl. You know, it's only had he said, that the Orange Bowl, the orange road kept falling open and you know, his junk hanging out stuff. He couldn't figure 100 rapid property, but he finally figured out, and every day the monks, including him, would go to the village with their wooden bowl and the people would put rice and beans into it and they would come back. You know, that was their homes. Whenever they come back and then they someone would cook it all and they would have a communal meal. And he did this for days and days and days. And after about three months, they had this ceremony because another visiting, um, monk was coming. Who was some kind of, ah grand grand, uh, monk. And so they had a different routine that day, and everybody was kind of like buzzing with the excitement of this new routine. And they go into this big communal room and off to the side was a room where everybody went in its and put set down their bowl. They wouldn't bowl for the day and then they win it is communal room. And they had this big ceremony, this big, you know, festival type thing, a different thing. At the end of the day, they went into the room to get the balls, and he was like he walked into the room, he said. I walked in there and he said I went in to get my ball obviously right. And he says, I looked this way, Look this way and all I could see as far as you could see with stacks of wooden bowls, he says. My first thought was, Which one's mine? Which is by bowl? Should I had the same Same existential blinked, a fear of loss with my best thing of the attachment in the world, which in Where's this? Where's my bowl? And he said, I something clicked in me that day and he said, You know And he said he came back to Vancouver. He owned houses and lands and businesses game. Very successful, man. Good. Yeah. And he said, You know what in the difference now is I own my possessions. They no longer owned me. Yeah, it's something just, you know, slough it off him. Some something drained off of his up of his energy. You know, Incredible.

Jordan:   24:58
That's an extreme story and extreme transformation like to go from from the massive material success that you have. I mean, men are is kind of at the end of the track, you know, it's a difficult to access to be among I like here in the I think that experience of walking around with a bold I haven't done that had a few spiritual explorations that not that walking around with a bold and that's my only possession to go from house to house. You got a that's gonna prove to you that you can trust life when you actually rid yourself of old money, all belongings or capacity to actually make money. And you don't do anything productive just sitting there in meditating and contemplating Ray fact that you can knock on a door and get enough to eat, and then you convinced, meet somewhere and it's you know you're not gonna get killed by a local tiger or something like that has got to be the ultimate imprint. Well, it's a trust. My oh, yeah, life is actually going to provide.

Zan:   26:05
Yeah, so, you know, like I've always had this notion. Like people say, Well, I'm trying to say about money before I go and follow my dream. I have to say a bunch of money, and I have to take care of this and take care of that. But I'm telling you, I had this notion back in the early days of enlightened seduction before I met you. And before, you know, it evolved into ours, Amerada of who had no money at all. But we would go to Amsterdam or something with one way tick when we ticket and no idea how we're gonna get out of there. You've done this many times in your life, Jordan. You should, you know, do a video Siri's or write a book or the block about your experience, because it more they're more hairy than minor, you know, and more to the wire than mine. Everywhere. But you would. You had this notion of trusting and my influences Casanova. He went from city to city from and from fortune to being run out of the city. You're another fortune to being run out of a city to, and you know, and then he would have to he go to Moscow in the winter, for instance, in a carriage pulled by horses with it, you know, for blanket on him for days. You know, we just go, We fly there, we fly, we whip around. So it was a really burden to travel. And he would take his trunk of letters, which he kept with him in all his life. His trunk of, you know, letters of from the women. And but he always trusted, And he would have no money and any drive in the city. And you say, You know, I heard about this one guy and try and get an introduction to him and try and become, you know, and he would. And he wrote about this, and it really influenced me because he trusted to the wind. He said, you know, like, you know, he trusted life to the river of life, you know? And And that somehow incorporated into me where you just But I had to saying back then, you know, like, um, success is gonna have to show up, and money is gonna have to show up because we're going anyway. Yeah. We don't have time to wait for money. We're gonna go and the money is gonna have to show up because we're going. And you know, when you trusted it that your your bread and water will be sure. And, you know, like Elijah the Ravens will come, you know, in feed you. You know, if you're if you're on, you're doing some kind of divine work. I guess you

Jordan:   28:30
know, you can trust that the rice is gonna get putting your bow like a monk. And it always does. Yeah, it

Zan:   28:35
always does. Yeah, it you never you know, like your foot always hits something. If you step into the void, always. You know, I think it was Morgan Freeman that said, you know, when I was a young man and I was trying to be an actor and I sucked out of so bad and I couldn't get work, you know, he's revered as an actor and he said I was gonna quit, become a cab driver. And he said, But you know what I discovered in life. If you are at the edge of what's possible and you can't continue forward and you put your foot one step further into the void into the blackness in front of you. He said your foot, but always hit something. You know, we always will hit something. If you trust and say I've got to figure this out, I'm gonna go forward, which is a leap of faith that skitter guards leap of faith. You don't say you have to trust in that is gonna be okay because you have no surety of it all. And he said, you feel will always hit something And he said this incredible concept He said What I discovered at the edge of when you couldn't go further someone will arrive into your life and give you the next step, not something. Some person will arrive at the edge end of your rope and some person will come along and give you that guidance to the next step. Some personal life and it's completely the absolute. It's 100% true. I traveled for years doing, you know, a little bit of coaching, but mainly lazy and trying to look, you know, trying to write my book so there, with no money, we never had any money. But we look but we loved it and we had a We had a real belief in you know the leaf on the on, going down the river, and it's, you know, that that's the concept. Duties in delight. I steal that from Castle from Casanova. You know,

Jordan:   30:31
it is totally mythological. You know, he comes to the end of your tether and then the mental or the muse or the band band of brothers that the try a class along in general

Zan:   30:42
always, always, Jordan, it never fails. If you are, you know, chance favors the prepared mind, right? And, you know, luck favors are lucky If you are in a in a contemplated mode of of wondering about your future in the curiosity future and you are moving forward with intent, even if you don't know what that intended toward. I don't know where I'm going. What's gonna happen with me next? But I have justice, leap of faith, this belief in this. Then it will happen if you're just listless and you're sitting around scratching, you're scratching your heinie and and watching YouTube all day and you know, of course, it's not gonna you know, you've got to be proactively designing your life in some way. We talk about that in our essential scores, right is the first week. The first week. The first theme of the 90 day course is designed in your life. Making your life for, you know, lifted. Creating your life is a work of art. You're painting your life. I want to have an artist. Conor to Central. Don't you say that we're approach to living and I won't have an artistic life. I want to look back and say that was a work of art. And there's a couple like, you know, miss blobs of paint that stuck out of there That didn't quite fit. But overall, it makes this impressionistic painting impression of my life.

Jordan:   32:03
I want to explore a little bit. The notion of wandering because what we're talking about is right at the essence of the ASM around a message, right? Like there is, um I think every man Well, no, This doesn't happen to every man, Not all by any stretch of the imagination, but we come to a period or a moment in our lives where certain things have been taken care off. So it might be Oh, yeah. I finished my kind of teenage years and I graduated school. I made out with a few girls. I know where I'm going. I know about who I am. And now I want to take off with backpack on 19 years old, im gonna hitchhike to the other end of the world like goodbye, right? And those the younger you are cliche, the young you are, the easier it is to go wandering because the younger you are, the easier it is to bungle yourself over, you know, in the back of somebody's car or sleeping on the amount of times I was traveling and I the hitchhiked or picked up a raid. And then they asked me Where have you got to stay tonight? And I said, I don't know. And then they offered me where you can stay with us. And then they took me out and we had a dinner or something like that. So I ended up hitchhiking and getting a free spot to sleep. The amount of times that happened was phenomenal, but that's it's kind of easy to do in your 1921 23 cause you don't need as much sleep in your Your kind of sensible hair does not caught up with you yet. There's so many risks I took on the back of the adrenaline and testosterone of being 21. That I would probably not take it is right. So it is kind of easy to go wondering as a young man, but you can get to the age of 40 50 60. We obviously worked with men like this all the time. They're like, OK, my my wandering phases arriving, I realized I grew well in see adult Hurt. And I got all my affairs in a row. You know, I took care of who I needed to be is a career. And now I realized that if I want to actually be my authentic self, I need to get the hell out of here and go on this wandering phase and it sticking with the word wandering because there's a real quality of, um, it's no a, uh, these could be really confused, right? That there's this kind of exodus mode of like fuck it. I just don't like real life. I'm I'm fucking off to Thailand where I'm gonna smoke weed on beach and get a girl That doesn't bother me too much. And I'm just gonna numb out. Look at the ocean for the rest of my days, right? And or I'm gonna go to wherever and just just get obliterated until my bank account runs out and had to go home and do it again. There's this kind of running away failure from society's. Yeah, escapism kind of failed in this society. I'm gonna go somewhere where it's easy and I don't want anyone to bother me like That's one attitude of travelers you see on the road pirates you see on the road and a lot of pirates like this in Asia in America And I waas like, to a large extent, motives. I was a large extent that I want to go with the living, cheapen the girl's acute and easy And don't give me a rough time, you know? Yeah, but on the other end. And it's very different. This energy of wondering, which is I need to know the mysteries I actually want to get. I we went to a church. I think I think it was in Spain, one of these massive Catholic cathedrals, you know, the biggest one in the city. And we went inside of me. I know it might have even been the Vatican. We went to the Vatican a day earlier, and I Oh, he said that, um, some Peter's Basilica. Just looking at just looking at paintings on the walls and ceilings and the domes and soaking up the energy of this place where people have been praying for 1500 years. And they had three words on the ceiling. They looked up with these words, and it was, Ah, you mean it done humility. Um, barbarian CIA obedience. Andi pobreza poverty. Well, that's not Latin. But those were the three words that I understood and I'm looking up and I'm translating these words. Okay, so there's three words that dominate the skyline of this cathedral. Um, obedience, humility and poverty. So I contemplate that for a little while. And the first thing that comes to mind is my political cynic part of me that's like, Oh, it's very It's very convenient to expels obedience and humility and poverty on the masses. So then you can just take all their money as you know, fun. Siphon it off into the church or all the priests drinking the finest wine and coat and everything with gold and velvet and sitting on their kind of Thrones with their crowns on their heads. So I'm angry and I'm like, This is why Catholicism's bad and bright on Henry the eighth. And it's good that we moved to this modernist timeto. Look what religion was doing to these people for 1000 years. And the unsaved mint of that in America. That Catholic judge. Just nasty, cynical political thinking, Right? And I sit on it a little bit more and wonder, Um, you know, it might be a golden shadow. Like why suspect the dark shadow of the church? Might there be a golden missed signal in those words on? And humility is quite simple, right? Like, I think, weaken a line on why humility is a good quality toe ponder upon and deepen and on body in ourselves, obedience is a bit tougher,

Zan:   37:37
especially for his rebels feeling, you know, against the man.

Jordan:   37:43
Yeah, I unroll something shit for me and it. I mean, I stopped believing in in Jesus and God when I was about seven. You know, after I found out that it wasn't a Santa Claus, it was actually my moment that that would sneak presence into a sack and tell me disillusioned boom. I mean totally how in the end, the Easter Bunny, why would he later chapter? It is no biological sense in that, Uh, but but it's funny to revisit some of the fundamentals of religion is ah, as an adult, you know, after you have seen and felt some things in life and this notion of obedience when I realized Oh, yeah, it's not obedience to the Vatican or obedience to the priest of the pastor who I projected was trying to run my life with morality. And then I rebel from him and his values all these years actually is obedience to God. Yeah, which is what? What's the truth? What's the divine truth that that is living as a tiny little unseen colonel within yourself within your heart that the way that you know that you have to go, you're gonna obey the silent on unheard longing of your own heart and actually follow your truth Or are you gonna right ignore the kind of rumble when you wake up five in the morning Wherever I'd rather be In Kazakhstan on a mountaintop were in Colombia in a hot tub surrounded by girls and I would be going to my you know, my 9 to 5. It's listening to that whisper if you call to adventure. That that's what I see is a big audience. Yeah, And then I think poverty is the most interesting one. Mm. And I've been I've been meditating a lot in poverty, right? Like watching the news time back in with a virus. That the first thing, the first big fear said this to you before. The first big fear I had about the virus was that I am I elderly family. You're going to get it, and they're gonna die, and I won't see them again. My practices? Yeah. If I'm so afraid of that, I'm just gonna pick up the phone and say like, Okay, what if you get the virus? You scared? I'm scared. Let's have a conversation about your death and the light and the possibility that I might never see you again. Let's just hash it all out. And it's a brutal facing about of definitely some of my deepest fears. I don't want to lose my Otago, you know, my mother and my aunt, my uncle, my older family. I don't wanna lose them to sit in that is transformative, actually have a conversation like that with with one's family. And then the second thing that I became afraid of was the economy. Like what happens if we have a 1929 to 1933 great depression and say, I feel like I'm sitting pretty because you know our work is not affected so far were able to live in these beautiful places. My locked down is not bad at all. Um, but what if all of the people that we work with that fans tryout? Or what if their dollars are not worth anything anymore? Well, what if you know the confiscates everyone's money and doesn't allow anyone to court gold and all of the scary stories that are being woven at the moment and to sit in the garden and contemplate poverty on by just a lot of you is no like like I do this. There's a lot of different things you can meditate upon, but I will sit outside and be like a for the next half an hour. I'm gonna bring up images of my mind off literally having very little to eat, going down to the banjo, which is the local village community with my bowl and being like, we've got no income. The ate the A t m is bust dollars, not worth anything anymore. We've got a bowl, give us some rice because the communities coming together to cook and take care of each other in a much more kind of most Neolithic old school way part. Um, yeah, and I sit there and think like, wow, they're taken away. Everything from me, This is ultimate poverty. Um, and then a part of me kicks in and says, Actually, I'm not 100% afraid of that situation, cause I've lived it before. Yeah, I have my part of my wondering and going to Spain was Ah, yeah, there were nights where I just had rice and beans. And then if I had an onion, it was like, Hallelujah moment. Seriously, I would cook the dinner with the onion and what un you can do to your food. You're just having rice and beans is quite extraordinary. There's so much going on in an onion. Um, like all of us, like with a memory like that and the kind of Hitchhikers and the Wanderers that have had that kind of fire out phase will know. I'm talking about here, that there's a really ecstasy in poverty, which is the minimal life, which is that I had everything. But I gave up even the backpack from my back. I gave up and I sat there, and it's like I've got absolutely nothing right now ends. Yeah, and something opens up and I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, Well, you know, if they take everything away, even even like my computer doesn't work anymore because you can't buy any chargers and batteries broken and it's literally we're back to the Stone Age kind of disaster scenario. I'm like, Well, at least I can write like, yeah, the simplicity of that. Yeah, the fundamental gifts that I want to give is a purpose or is a legacy writing sitting down with the group, telling stories, offering some kind of, um, contemplation or consolation or vision off something that could be more excited telling stories to the next generation in the tribe. Like all of these, which I think that close to my purpose close to your purpose close to many who are You know, I worked like they don't get stripped away.

Zan:   43:23
Flight? No. Those fundamental fulfillment elements are the because Because Jordan you Because you you've you set out to to have those as you're in goal. You know the journey, your end goal, not the journey to riches and fame and the journey is the fundamental principles that are better than near and dear to your heart are at the base of human existence and longing. And so those don't go away. Like you said, You know, like once we have shelter, you know, Maslow and all this kind of stuff. Once we have shelter and food and water. Now we start to look around for community in communion, and you know these various things and your whole life has been predicated, has been, has been designed around going and finding your own missions, your own adventures so that you can take that in your hands in both hands and hand it to someone else. You know, it's that it's you created a life of that and not not everybody has that Not everyone's gonna have a life like that or desires a life like that. But you're so you could say that you've designed your life to serve, but not to serve in a subservient way. You know what I mean?

Jordan:   44:39
We're in somewhat missionary way. Altruistic. Think I

Zan:   44:43
miss do gooder unselfish, and I will. And I'm not you and I have a role, you know, burden for my fellow man. Know you're an adventurer, your mystic. You want to understand the mysteries of life and because you there so exciting to you, you want to share it with others. That's all it is is not because you have this altruistic streak or or you're setting out to be this didactic personality or or to go and preach to the masses. You know this, the peoples who set themselves up just like I've got something teach you, you know, holding their finger, going like this. And and the the modern gurus of the world, You know, we're not that were not gurus were just really believe in life. We believe in women we believe in at the beautiful existence of life. We want to share it with. That is what we see.

Jordan:   45:35
Yeah, And I would say I would say, you know, you say I'm not, like, not like everyone else on many people like that out there. But I would say that if you're kind of listening to this or watching this and you're you've made it through enough of meandering conversation to still is you're probably made of a similar stuff. So I am audience. Yeah, I'm assuming I'm predicting that it is us if you're a man of if you're a man of purpose and this is another one of those kind of myths that a lot of people having them I need to have a lot of money saved that so that I can go traveling or I need to have a lot of money saved up so that I can do my purpose or my work that my art I know in my heart to be true. Then I Then I'm just gonna work like a um I'm just gonna work in something inoffensive. Consider I've got enough, you know, maybe a six big of wedge behind me, and then I'm gonna go and do my thing, right, and yeah, it's very illusory, because if you've got a strong inefficient, the money can show up. There's always gonna be some entrepreneurial investor kind that that can fund your patron you if you're really committed to your your work. But what I want to say is that as as you get closer to your purpose, you realize that what the energy of that purpose is is not something that needs money. Really, To fund it. No, not at all, man. Thousands of years and we've been having this book club rights. I'm reading people like Seneca Room, Marcus Aurelius and thinking, Well, you know, like these guys Saand, they're amazing legacy that they gave to the world is is in their writings and the combination of their thought and they recorded it. And it's survived 2000 years or this epic of Gilgamesh book that we read. Um, people saved those tales. They wrote them on stones and, well, it was

Zan:   47:27
Orel first. It was, like handed down. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Alias is a good example because he didn't write something for you to read in the future. He wrote that was his thoughts that he wanted to retain for himself. And, you know, from this from this emperor, we have this handed down to us. But he was really trying to keep his thoughts gathered and It was his own personal notes and, you know, and he didn't set out to be this this stoic teacher, you know, just just we we related to his authenticity in his work and say I can that in my modern age that I can relate to that, and it applies to my life, and I can apply that to my life. And I could see the lessons that that are timeless time. This lessons, you know, and the needs of humanity is, I said recently, was it on the last call it? Remember that you know, there's nothing new under the sun ecclesiastic. You know, nothing. We think especially in this in this time of trouble that we're in this Corona virus time. We think, Wow, we're going through something that the world has never seen before. Unprecedented. But how many plagues destroyed every 50 years of play comes through and destroys a chunk of the population? And how many quarantines have there been in the past for people hit and how many times in the past people put on masks in the long ones with with the dust in it and how many you know, how many pestilence is and plagues have we run from and hidden from and killed off a chunk of people. And we think, Oh, we're special. You know, this is why I have a lot of optimism because, uh, there there's a lot of parallels between this, you know, flu and the Spanish flu that devastated Europe, you know, devastated Europe. That's not even compared to the bubonic plague and some of these other things of that super devastating, you know? And so so imagine our science and our modern medical knowledge is is so advanced that, you know, the impact is minimal and compared to friends is the Spanish flu, right? And we think that we're special. But, you know, our parents and grandparents and great grandparents and all our cultures went through real serious things like this, and they got on with, you know, building cities and creating life and having a laugh with their loved one in a park, you know?

Jordan:   49:58
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about perspectives before I go there. Just to sum up the world for me is to become the phrase from years Teoh become intimate with poverty. Like if you are coming from a rich, modern Western society, and you're scared shitless about the notion of poverty, which is scary. Like it. It's scary to be in it for a lot of years, scary to see it or to live amongst that in parts of the world where you lived among that kind of day to day reality, Um, but to really become intimate with what that means for you, because there there can be moments of absolute ecstasy of revelation or self discovery in in poverty. And it's only only once I shed myself off my A material attachments could I know what it's like to go door to door with bowl on, learn how to trust that. Life's always got my back, that even if I've got nothing, I've still got me on as long as I'm not poor, they say poverty exists only in the mind. As long as I have not got a mental poverty, I've got my contemplation of my powerful questions. May my curiosity. I'm never gonna be poor,

Zan:   51:15
and we're resourceful, you know, through the people that they're listening to this and who are drawn to our work, who's who you know. South to all 50 episodes. 53 half hour episodes of are in search of the Alabaster Girls. Siri's We did. And there's a lot of people who said I watched it a couple times. You know, I sat through that a couple times, and so anybody who's who's drawn to this and who's this far into the video of you and me blathering right is a different kind of entity, a different person. Congratulations. If you've got

Jordan:   51:50
enough attention span to make it this far forecast like you're good for life. You got one of us. Get through poor moments.

Zan:   51:58
So we're doing so only certain people there certain type of people will be drawn to what we're doing, you know, which is this this this? You know, the archetypes we always talk about you don't like, Um, there's a certain tone of person and somebody who is trying to understand something, And so they are. The kind of person that will sit in contemplation is maybe in a cathedral, you know, and sit and wonder about the stored silence stored prayers that have gone up for centuries in that building. You know, births and baptisms and deaths and marriages, and you know, and it's It's a stored element and you could feel it. So they're drawn to it, the same as we would be drawn to it. So the reference you can have sitting in a cathedral looking up ceilings, you know, which is identical to the reference you can have looking at the mountains and, you know, and the miss coming over the mountains. It's like there's a sense of the sublime and awe, and so they're drawn to this kind of conversation. So So it's a natural extension for them to sit in contemplation of these of austerity, you know? You know, poverty is the right word. Ah, because poverty has a connotation that it's you've been externally, circumstantially stripped of. And now you're stuck in, you know, in You know what I'm saying? Yes. Happened to you as

Jordan:   53:24
it was Teoh as opposed Renunciation? Yeah, or it's kind of you were born into poverty. You grew up in poverty. You never had a chance to get out of the kind of mental or cultural poverty that you're into and you're doing Yeah, So it's kind of like a victimized people with mental of epitomizing is from the West and so on, like that kind of view of poverty. But there's the No, I was rich for a period, and something befell me again. It flats, you know, Bank, bank, countless seized, whatever. It WAAS does my job wife left. And so Yeah, so yeah, exactly that you might live in poverty for a while. But then there is the possibility that, you know, that could swing back because you are amount of, or women of education, free thinking. And you understand how people and life works enough that you can You can you trust that at some point, something trust, even if you have to live in a Burmese monastery for nine years? Yeah, And then So that kicks in again. I think I said this to fool, but we were in Taiwan and we went to this museum of ancient Chinese art and there was this big thing off there. The kings in the courts and the elites they would gather and have thes great feasts were great gatherings, and it would be a bit like our conference, but they would sit there with the best. Okay, this is the best painter, and this is the best calligrapher on this is the best poet and this is the most ornate tea ceremony hurts them. And they would all enjoy the cultivation of of the gifts of the tribe of the gifts of the collective. And then when that was over, they would have to go off on DCU All today they're gifts once more. Shit. Like, um, around? Yeah, I start. The other guy was good. I'm gonna come back next year on everyone's. And you know, I've got a working a craft so I can show up at the next effort, gathering with something to show for it. And they said that a lot of the poets, what they would do is track right out to the edges off known civilization like that. They would go in poverty. It was funny. Causal the artwork. And this is from the third to the fifth century a d. All of the artwork would depict these nobleman poets going out into the snow, like to the feet of the Himalayas of the jungle or up to the pains of Mongolia. They would all be going up, and they would be sitting on that knife edge of poverty. But this is the edge of existence and there would be longing for poverty. How How can I sit in this energy of having nothing? And they would have a camera in a couple of saves. Basically, carrying all this stuff isn't really that back is covered basically. But they would sit and wonder like, Well, wow, here where I am and it's cold and I'm suffering and I'm going to bet on a hard bed. I've not got my wife with me. I've not got the comforts at home and they would sit in that. And it was only in that encounter with the extreme that they would have enough of the on opening, Let's say, like a concept with something transcendent that could inform their poetry with something new. Mm, almost as if no good poetry ever came from luxury. It only came from the desolation that lives at the end of civilization. And they would have to go all the way out that just so that they could capture something of the gods. Can I steal a little bit about Can I steal something from the nature of the transcendent and the unknown, which lies so far away so that when I go back to my conference next year, I've actually got a story to tell.

Zan:   56:55
Yeah, that's interesting. You know, it's a I mean, there's they There's a contemplation about There were a conversation about that's been going on for a long time, you know, like the romantic poets, the Byron's and the Shelly's of the world. You know, they they didn't go to the edge. They might have done a little too around Italy himself at, but they didn't go to the edge of the wilderness or the edge of, But they did internally by, you know, taking opium stuff at and desolate ing themselves that they could on purpose so that they could you will create this kind of art is the same. Thing is, you know, any of the rock n roll musicians that feel that they can't write music on this. There's, you know, higher, you know, slammed on alcohol so interesting. Um,

Jordan:   57:43
yeah, there's something that they can have that received the information from the gods. They have the answer and

Zan:   57:50
turn to some kind of altered state. And it could be like the deprivation of the wilderness, like it's sad like in the snowy Himalayan XYZ. Yeah, Himalayas, right? That's interesting. And there's something to it. I mean, like, um, there's a great debate, you know, like this art come from Does great art only come from suffering? Or is it Ah, is it just like you look like most boats are, You know, one of the greatest artists of of our Western canon Hey was frivolous and, you know, right and fart jokes and and obsessed with the, you know, you know, scatological humor in all of his letters and in some of his operas and some of his, you know, music is like It's like talking about, you know, like some pretty dirty stuff. And it was like with his whole family and a great without, he had it so the whole thing. And so and he had a pretty relaxed life. You know what he created some of the most. And that's what you know, scholars, that you can't put it together, that he was so juvenile in his humor and such a you know, and so crude. And he created some of the most militant listen and and divine art that, you know, that we know in the west. So

Jordan:   59:10
perhaps we could say it like this. Gray doesn't have to come from suffering, but poverty and suffering in the way of your gray are

Zan:   59:23
say it again. Probably suffering. What?

Jordan:   59:25
All the tea and suffering doesn't necessarily hinder your great art

Zan:   59:30
and it yet. And it may enhance it because you're in contemplated mode. If you're if you're if you reduced and you and your and your frivolous pleasantries are taken away, like I liken, distract myself with the abundance of the Internet naked but and and the abundance of, you know, uh, partying or whatever it is because I have the comforts of life because, I don't know, not in a you know, you know, straight situation. Um, there's something in you that doesn't do any kind of introspection. And you do introspective. You're sitting, you know, and you're cold at the bottom of Himalayas. You're you're wondering Number one man. What did I do this for? You know, number two. How do I get out of

Jordan:   1:0:12
it? Number three. How long will it be? Number four white and I stay with that woman in the last, you know, in the last hostile in the last town. I know this is satiny, my vision for the conferences. In the conversations we have another Murata is about this. Like when I go and sit and you speakers who are all members of our community that I've grown through our conversation have become men of adventure and character. I want to hear their stories about when they went to the edge of civilization and touched into the transcendent and on the poverty and the extreme and the tested their limits against elements. And they came back. And I want to hear that fire that they then bring back to the tribe. That's my vision. I don't want their in here. Another lecture about the dance of the masculine and the feminine.

Zan:   1:1:00
Yeah, because it comes from where us, you know, the difference between you know, it might take on art and kitsch. Kitsch is the, you know, the the fake sense of art, you know, like what is kitschy is like, you know, art has been, is something that is given to you from the transcendent From the divine is something that's handed to you, which you turn around and share. Like all the artists, every artist is I don't know where it came from, You know, even though the first line of of the Ley Addis is speak through me old muse because I have nothing to say, Holmes. That's the first line I've got. Nothing. Does you really speak through me? I've got nothing to say. Yeah, the very first line. Yeah, and all artist since Homer have been saying that it comes. It's so it comes from something else that doesn't belong to you. And you take that art where there's painting or writing or poetry, whatever and you hand it down. And kitsch is a gift that you're given to others that you didn't receive that you didn't receive. You didn't receive it. It's just something. The outpouring of you looking me. Here's what I did was taken something from contemplation from from from from an artistic you know, introspection from from contemplating the mountains and the sea and and and the girl you love and writing or painting about that. And now you take that your own internal journey, a spiritual journey captured in an artistic way and handed and kitsch is just you just handing something. And look, I'm an artist and I painted this and they did this. And that's

Jordan:   1:2:34
K I can't on this one. The last conference I went to, I had this great idea. So I'm gonna tell you what my great idea no, that I

Zan:   1:2:42
just took for Exactly. Yeah, that's why modern art is all about the artist. Look at me. Look what I did And look at who, you know, look at how I could shock you as opposed to I have something that that I have I have glimpsed I've seen something. I've caught a glimpse of something that in my unique way I have shaped it and handed it and it's passed through you. That's homers. Homer's words Air passed through him from the news. You know, like and all the great artists recognize that, and the kitschy ones are saying I'm great and look at idea and here's my music and here's my

Jordan:   1:3:22
yeah, a few things that getting tired together in my mind at the moment, like I'm thinking about some of the some of the men and women and the corners of our gatherings. They're like, I'd like to say something, but I've got nothing to give or who am I like. I don't have ah adventure to speak yet into this into this space.

Zan:   1:3:40
Our gatherings are incredible that way, Jordan, because everything that we do and it's evolved or shifted towards is more and more over the years that it's all about the journey. It's all about the personal journey, that quote unquote hero's journey of that individual. You know, man, that comes to our conferences. We had to cancel this one because of this Corona virus. But, you know, next follow hopefully will be back in the saddle. But those conferences are circulating around the conversation of the journey and this story of the journey for each of the of them and as opposed to, you know, like let's have this men's group of excellence, you know, like that's the strive towards excellence what, you know, What does that mean? Let's let's tell our story. And that's live a life that becomes a story with chapters and verse, you know?

Jordan:   1:4:29
Yeah, yeah, and characters. So the man or woman who is quiet on the fringes it's like, go and live your story like we invite you to go to the edge of what is civilization for you like surf on the on the edge of the unknown of the wildness. See what you get like, open yourself up to these very spaces of politics, spaces extreme and see what comes through you from the muse. Ask. I've got nothing to say at this conference. I've got nothing to say to women. I've got nothing to say. I am asking you is what? What is your life journey to come through You go and you can feel the difference Bring back.

Zan:   1:5:11
You can feel the difference when you're in a group and somebody speaks up And their whole purpose and intent of speaking is too teach a lesson to the group or to coach the group you know, like, and it and it falls flat and, you know, ring following

Jordan:   1:5:29
the rial. Man, I'm gonna tell you Think this is how

Zan:   1:5:33
you do it? And I'm thinking, What's your story that you have? Tell it. Tell that in the context of a story, you know, like, this is how I've learned something my life that made me realize you know what it means to be a real man. Now we got my attention in my ear as opposed to just trying to be this this this, uh, coach, I guess you could say, you know, you shouldn't denigrate that phrase, but But it's like we're story driven and it's all story and all that we do. All I've ever done all these years is tell stories that I think you're funding cool and same with you, you know, and and I want to hear stories. And so I will sit and listen in that group to somebody's story and the lesson they learned the girl they loved and lost. I listed these stories. This is, you know, this is the arc of all stories. They're, you know, they're this protagonist and the protagonists you runs into trouble, and all stories have to have some kind of, you know, crisis in it. And then you surmounted the trouble of the crisis by this and, you know, in the antagonists. And so, um, if we're not, we're not telling stories. If we're not gathering together to tell stories and to listen to stories and to foster again the art of storytelling, then we're just a bunch of talking heads that you know, what's the point, By the way, I'm drinking a drink in a green call. I only have these in Romania and its stevia. Okay, no sugar and no Asper tainment, says stevia. So is it Could Takata? It looks like Coca Cola, but it's a It's a company that really much copied. They're designed. I think it's a Bulgarian company or something, but it's good and tastes like real Coca Cola. But it's got stevia. So

Jordan:   1:7:26
just a shower for Green Cola. The sponsors of today's Is

Zan:   1:7:30
that supposed to do that? I e

Jordan:   1:7:33
find the promotional link types are on and get 50% discount for Great Britain photo wherever you're living in the world. Well, 11 topic I really wanted to cover today was the breath of perspective from which we look at things. Um, if I and this is watching my own kind of mind and attention over the last month, right? We're in this very unknown bays of history. How's things going to look afterwards? What's the economy gonna be? What's what's gonna happen? Nobody knows. So we look for information, right, and I turn on YouTube and as I said, it's quite click Bai. Everything's Clickbait. I think we should call the name of this episode. Everything is gonna be all right. Have a big picture of the world and it's mighty face. Just say like the click. The energy of this pops up on someone's feeding YouTube. The Clickbait energy of it is good, but it it's like all these chance the economy going down and then I'll here comes Bitcoin and Bitcoin is going up to the moon. And then here comes their senates, and it's all this, like the closer ones noses to the wire of what's happening on a hour to hour basis. If if you're I'm studying economy the last few weeks because I'm getting a lot out of it, Um and I've never studied economy. You know, I have my 2000 and eight pinch, which shocked the life into me and have me make some big decisions about the ownership of my life and how it was gonna lead that, Um, but the economy I never looked at it because I wanted to consider the more artistic, spiritual, rational, logical questions and then the mysteries of life, that same women beauty. The economy is fascinating. And if I try and study it, I've got kind of three different depths of study like the 1st 1 is, Did Bitcoin go up today Or like, what happened to the stock market going down on what happened to the oil barrow barrels that went to minus $40 in the war on Russia And the Saudis, like I can get encapsulated in the day today. Whirling miles stream of events, right? A national monetary things. Yeah, and it's a very horrible place to be because the more I invest my attention into the the extreme short term fluctuations of things, it just creates anxiety like Oh my God, Did I miss that investment foam? 00 my God, Is my stock portfolio going down like killer? And you can see just how tragic you get caught up into the emotional upswings and down swings is like women. Oh, my God, She didn't text me back. Like, Did I do something wrong? You're in the complete, most short term emotional world wind of the day to day events. When your nose is pressed so close to current affairs, what happened? Constant. I'm like Jesus. If I am a day trader or something, I'm going crazy because I have to literally. I can't stop looking at my screen because if I miss a deal or something, then I'm just gonna die of the foam. Oh, so just having one's awareness that close up to the current affairs is painful. And then there's a kind of second perspective, which is okay, let's lean back a little bit. And here, Yeah, let's hear from the political side. Let's hear from the economists analysis that's here. What happened in the last 20 years and what can we learn from 2008? And why are we here now? And all of a sudden it becomes a little bit more intelligent like Okay, I'm not so worried about the situation with fear. What's gonna happen? Debt crisis, exclamation mark. OK, I've got a bit more measured in a bit more in measurement and intelligence in this economic debate so I can start learning. What is constitutive easing? Onda? What is a confession? Michael, In a deflationary cycle, which one comes first and listen calls? Yeah, yeah, so So you've got this. It's a much more intelligent conversation about the economy, but it's also I found it very consuming subsuming the more I tried t understand economy from the still quite close to what's going on. But I'm a little bit back that can take over my whole mental headspace

Zan:   1:11:45
Didn't Did you like it? Like you seem to embrace it and thats study, they're off.

Jordan:   1:11:50
I'm getting a lot of all all these three different character categories. I'm getting a lot like even from there I open up my computer and Bitcoin went up $1000 I'm like I was gonna buy somebody, didn't and the later Teoh learn what it's like to be executive thread of the day to day fluctuations. It is wild ride, right? Um and then you step back a little bit. It's OK, that brings a bit more measure. But then there's and you hear the analysts in the hour long videos about this and that and the other in it. And then I start to learn a little bit more of the intricacies. Um, why is it a good time to invest in this? Because this is gonna happen and so on, and you get to have more of a conversation, and then there's another step back. Um, Andi, this is where I'm completely fascinated and There's only two people I know that I've taken that third step back. Yeah, um, one of them is you, actually. Andi. Another one is a billionaire economists kind of hedge funds owner called Ray Dalio. No,

Zan:   1:13:00
I just heard about that guy. Yeah,

Jordan:   1:13:02
Yeah. He's in his seventies. Wrote a book called Principles. Yeah, I just heard about that enormous hedge fund. And so I've been reading his stuff. What sets him apart is that he takes on a historical perspective. So even the most kind of excellent intellectual complexity theory I'm really into a lot of complexity theory, stuff that's going on and how these different systems Airil intertwined in one pandemic over here creates economic chaos over here, which creates a kind of tribalism racism problem over here, which has potential problems with drought that might happen over there. It's amazing, like the interconnectedness of all of this. So you've got the complexity theory Istanbul that, and it's like a big tangle debate, like just to get your head around. Everything that's happening in the day to day is extremely hard. It'll fill up one's consciousness with thoughts, and then I see my girlfriend, our baby. I've been thinking too much. Stay X or I've got no nothing to offer you A. A. You know, I think this last step back would be Would all it knows is the furthest away from the current affairs. We could call this a historical perspective because it's some any rate Ray Dalio's words, he says. Yeah, even the best economists in the world trying to figure out what's happening to the system, and they're trying to figure out what's happening to the system with information that they have got from within their lifetimes. And if you're 50 or 60 years old, you can say some really intelligent things about what might happen because you've seen a lot, so it's usually up. So it's usually the kind of 20 year old 30 year olds. Yet a 20 year old doesn't really know an economic crash. He would have been a in the last one, so he doesn't have that embodied memory. 50 year old Now it's seen a few crashes on Deacon draw some dots and makes a really intelligent analysis, So that's a deer from depths of conversation. But Ray Dalio's talking about the economy goes in cycles, which are longer than a person's lifetime. So if you want to make sense of what's actually happening in the world today, you have to study things that have never happened in my lifetime. But that have happened many times before.

Zan:   1:15:25
It's cycling. Yeah, yes, it's It goes in there. There's larger cycles, smaller cycles. And then the daily cycle, you know, And they talked about. Yeah,

Jordan:   1:15:34
but most of us, most of us can start to see that there are cycles, but we're limited to only seen cycles that have actually happened in our own lifetimes. That's right, even if you're so he's 70. Um, yeah, you would have to be 91 years old. You'd have to be over hundreds. How actual memory you'd have to be 97 98 years old. Now it's actually remember the 1929 crisis and Russian that that followed. So even if you're a 70 year old analyst, you probably not gonna remember some of the memories from that. In a deep way, you'd have a cursory are. That was a history lesson I got once when I was in school, or but But it's not in my body living memory, so considerate to take and say Dalio's analysis, which which for me has been the most liberating view on economy is Okay, so I'm gonna study the rise and fall of empires. There you go. Yeah, that's great. What happened in? And he's studying something like 17 to 20 ancient empires. How did Rome grow? Because it was all economy that create that, that growth of the empire And then it was economy that contributed to its decline. As soon as the monetary system got corrupted, as soon as kind of more and more slaves were kind of stolen as soon as they couldn't pay all the right things in the right amounts and a for the military. Then they just started to get sacked by the Huns and the tribes that the Goths and so on that came into the borders of Rome and and heat maps as well. The Dutch, the British, ancient Chinese, French and German, Japanese. It's has to appraise,

Zan:   1:17:07
you know? Yeah. Different. The different, uh, crazy. You know, explosions of different markets that collapsed and bankrupted everybody in sight. Yeah, it's It's all been done before.

Jordan:   1:17:21
Nothing new under the sun. That's why I say you know, even this All this is to say

Zan:   1:17:25
this medical crisis is is not know. Yeah, not at all new. But we've for gotten it and were so narrow minded, so close minded. And we don't learn their lessons from history, you know that. We think that Oh, poor us. This is affecting us. And why us? But why? Anybody in the history, you know? So, yeah, that's a great So that's what you mean when you talk about perspectives. Thank you. Yes. So that you step back out and look at it at the you know, the spectrum of human nature and the economic cycles that have have guided civilizations. Yeah. Yeah, that's staffs fascinating.

Jordan:   1:18:06
So the question is, how first of all, how wide is your perspective and how and how wide can you make how broad and how deep can you make yours perspective through study? But it doesn't come easy. The kind of study of empires that he's doing putting together in a body of work. It's gonna be a book later in the year to do that work to gather those perspectives is hard and it takes time. But the DP of perspective and the further you are away from the momentary fluctuations the, um the more liberating it is. Yeah, that's why why I say you I'm putting you in that bracket with Ray Dalio because when you tell a story about the crisis, it's like, yeah, if I If I study the bubonic plague, I've got this great story of Isaac Newton in his Anna Smith about us. So through now, like people now in the kind of self help Yeah, we can use this time to change and learn the language I always wanted to learn, you know, like like let's you and grow my business Because I got all this focus time toe, actually have a story and have contemplated very deeply a story of like, Isaac Newton was the greatest physicist of his time, one of the top three in history, that shamed way that the world operates. He had his best year. Um, probably perhaps even because of the plague. And it's exactly just to read that I feel an instant liberation like, Oh, wow. And then if I read Ray Dalio and think about why we might be on the end of the 19 year cycle, Onda and there might be a superpower that's actually dwindle in like this. Kind of yeah, shifting Sands Superpower might be on the wane and the China one might rise. And there might be a replacement in world currency and what you dollars worth and who holds purchasing power in the world. It's been very nice to feel privileged to have a lot of purchasing power compared to people from other nations, and that might change. We'll have to taste what it's like. Teoh have the shoe on the other foot. Um, the closer I get to where I am in a panic I want to protect. I want to protect my feeling up our own superiority and you can't touch me. But what if the shoes on the other foot and the idea that that's happened many times before?

Zan:   1:20:21
I you know, my whole existence is contemplating history and and that's where my lessons came from. That's where my quarter unquote therapy, if there's any kind of therapy, is from stories to pass, you know, like and and And and I and I completely convinced that you know, there's nothing new under the sun, and it's way we're learning. We have the same needs. Same, you know, cycles. You 100% accurate on this, Jordan. And it's like, um, I'm always putting my step perspective on the length of a life and the length of the life in the context of other lives and of civilization and what we're trying to create and legacy. You know what legacy is a big word that you and I tossed back and forth. They could make a tennis ball all the time. You know, like a living legacy. The legacy that of your life when you're on your deathbed. Some. My early talks was all about that. You know, like contemplating what? What kind of life do you memories? Do you want to? One of the early things that I was known for saying was you know what the greatest memories that I could make That should be the only guide in life if you're in a fork in the road. I remember seeing this years ago. I forgot about it. Almost. You know, he has a fork in the road, and you could go left. You go right. And you have two options in life. The only guy that you should do is is which one will give me the best memories when I'm old. Which path do I think? We'll give you? The best memories minimal. And so there's a lot. I have a huge step back perspective. And maybe that's maybe that's the only thing that maybe that is my only gift, you know, like, I step back and really reflect on the whole thing, the whole flow. And we're you know, we're this glimpse of time, you know, like where this moment in time and that's it. And I'm fascinated by time and and and Einsteinian concepts of time and the physics of time and and you know, is time like a three D printer that, you know, it just keeps going like this. And we're here on the on the edge of the hot, the hot plastic of it, you know, And I'm fascinated by I'm completely fascinated by it. And so, like, I've got just on my shelf up there got, like, six or seven books on string theory, and I'm fascinated by it blows my mind. Dark matter. I want to know and nobody knows. It's all theory, right? Right, so But that's a great concept Jordan that the stepping back into the perspective of civilization and your role at this time in history. You know,

Jordan:   1:22:59
I'd like to hear a little bit more about how you went there. How you got there, Andi, Think because this is a gift Teoh, uncover and then offer. I would say that everyone, each of us have a kind of center of gravity to which our attention on a day today basis goes eso this. Your gravity is either on the fluctuations of the stock market and the anxiety of that. Or it's a little way back in like Kanye, what you know from a different perspective and get the complexity and like, wow, and how the interconnectedness of everything. I'm very much here like I could stand up with you in public or in one of our groups, their own prince, and weave together all these different complexities and how they come together and wow, like, look at this amazing thing that's going on in the world, and then you and you're coming from a step back in history. And then you're just explaining this very difficult, complex thing. You're like I was in the fourth century. There was a guy, but this and I'm like, Oh, the dizzying wearing of the world All of a started in Sean's school you come from from from a higher altitude. So, um, I think that my question is how to kind of ground your day today Thought streams. In a historical perspective, how to do that on the way to do it is clearly because the peace of mind, I think that one experiences and the depth of peace and perspective that one can give to others is yeah, just respective

Zan:   1:24:37
perspectives puts you quote unquote in your place. You feel that you you're not special. How many people came before you that had more trouble than you? And you know, and I think for me, it's because I grew up in Northern Camp in northern British Columbia in Canada, and my family was very, very close, very tight, But we were isolated from any kind of ancestry or historical let you know, I didn't know any of my relatives really, because we were so isolated in the north there and and I had no person, and I was so fascinated by, you know, if I, uh, they where it came from, and I had no perspective on it. Like you in England. You you get 1000 year old church around the corner and kids or skateboarding around it. You know, it's like it's so, so commonplace. And for me, when I see 1000 year, year old church still today, I am in awe of what half we rot. You know what has come, what a civil agencies created that I'm now this this you know, we talked about creating culture, ours in raw disk, about creating culture. And it's it's We're creating this little infinite decimal slice of culture in our way, and we're adding onto the another layer on that 1000 year old church, and that blows my mind. Cause in northern British Columbia there was nothing that's older than you know, no building older than maybe 70 years or something, you know? And I found arrowheads when I was a kid, you know, I'd find an arrowhead, but the the the native people that went before that was the only trace. There was no trace of it, of of, you know, history, except for narrow had now and then. So it's just pure wilderness, man will be carved in in the last 60 70 years it carved into the wilderness and and I don't When I was traveling back in the day and I would I would find it, I would buy a coins like I like medieval coins. I'd like I'd go into a coin shops, and if they had medieval coins, I would like buy A. You know, they coined a silver coin from the 13 hundreds Hungarian coin or British Bitcoin or English coins of that. And and I would sit there in contemplation of How do you know? How did this Roman coin get from that Roman era to me in Canada, holding this on my hand? What soldier got it in his pay? Who went to a prostitute? She bought a loaf of bread, you know, and the movement of that is a great movie with Samuel Jackson called The Red Violin and it and it shows this, you know, Stradivarius type violin from the 17th century and that hands it went through the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and now it's in, in, In, In Sotherby's being auctioned off for millions of dollars. Oh my God, it and it shows the history of this red violin that No, it's different hands. And I'm fascinated by that trajectory of that flow like and I and I never felt I was connected to it. So I really had this emptiness in me that I'm not. I have no perspective. I have just nothing but this nearby small little village of 800 people. Wow, you know, and the cabins I lived in and the further I went out into the wilderness and, you know, you know, and fishing and and doing that same type of thing I was so removed from any sense of history that I was fascinated by history. And I read, The encyclopedia is it's basically, uh, books we had was the World Book Encyclopedia. I read it ese because I was so fascinated and history still to this day, it blows my mind. I'm in Bucharest and I still have this sense of overwhelming. Aw, of when I see, you know, a building that's, you know, 500 years old or right around the corner from Roman ruins underneath glass. You know what succeed? And I think how How can this be? How you know what is my place I really think What is my place in this? These Romans that came before, You know, Bucharest has got layers of city, you know, for centuries, A so all city is they all do is all cities do, And those layers that went below of for gotten people. And someday we're gonna be forgot, you know? And, you know, when I was in Florence, you go to the the churches there or Westminster Abbey. I always think about this, you know? And here's used a a life sized night stone on the ground like a gravestone against her applet. That marker. And it's worn down from centuries of feet. And all you could see is a barrel line of this noble knight and that barrel line of his sword in the barrel line of his shield. And nothing left but that worn away image when he was so famous back in the day that they thought to implant him in the in the bottom Westminster Abbey. And that's us. And and that blows my mind. And I I'm always sitting in the perspective of, you know, all the things we're trying to do are are is nobody is anybody's ever tried to do and as trivial as anybody's trying to do, you know, and boom, one of these days we you know it's taken away from us and it fascinates me. And I'm fascinated by longevity to like how to extend life style and said that which is the new science that you know that everyone's talking about by talking, Yeah, life hacking and how to to extend, you know, human nature Is this this malady of growing old and how you can reverse it or stave it off? And I'm fascinated by these types of things and fascinated by, you know, I'd love to live for five years. I have so much I feel like I want to understand and don't have time. Incredible, man.

Jordan:   1:30:40
Wow, What What I'm hearing is you you grew up with with a lack or perceives riel, lack of culture and history, like do these people that live in big cities and you know, where did my folk come from? Toe end up in this part of world and it's like that sets off a further inside you. So when you find history and when you I and culture, there's an amplified curiosity because it's you never seen this before in the kind of contemplation that you're naturally go down is quite extraordinary, like fueled by maybe what you didn't have let you sit there and you look a coin and wonder about how that was passed from person to person, like the red violin. Um, most people won't do that. Oh, it's an old coin. You know, I know when we get a coffee shop or get the glass of wine at the end of this board Museum Day that my kids or my wife is taking me on. Right?

Zan:   1:31:37
And Joseph Brodsky said, There's there's nothing so beautiful as the site of ruins and that that completely is my sentiment. When I see something, when I see ruins overgrown with grass of that, I have to touch it. I have to reach out and touch it, and I have to contemplate, and I have to sit there, and I could sit there for hours just wondering who was here, who put this rock upon Iraq and and I was proud of them and was proud of their work. Who is who would like that girl? I wanted to run, you know, run across the village and meter. That that gives me all. That's my perspective, you know.

Jordan:   1:32:19
So that was that's us the way that you will ask those questions so repeatedly and follow that kind of contemplated, tive contemplative cycle that adds up to you have in this broad historical perspective,

Zan:   1:32:35
100%. Yeah,

Jordan:   1:32:36
well, easy his own. That's why it's like I can't as a pandemic. Wow, this has happened not in my lifetime, but many lifetimes before. Let's have a look. Let's see what stories Isaac Newton had that and other inventors, and he was trying to understand. Physics gives

Zan:   1:32:51
me gratitude, Jordan, like I talked about gratitude a lot. You know, Arjun, Rana, We have some of our strongest themes is gratitude is the opposite of, you know, being judgmental, for instance, and and, uh, and gratitude he has is a salvation type of energy, you know? And and And I have gratitude for this poor young kid with no education, no money, you know, talk about economic, you know, devastation. No money. Never saw money. Never saw any kind of hint of money. My whole growing up ever. Um and I get to and have arranged my life on purpose by conscious effort to to, you know, with still without possessions but to speak through the cities of the world and to and to and to go on reconnect to some kind of history perspective. You know, that's why I could never live in a city that doesn't have history. Couldn't do it like, yeah, they say never. But, you know, like an and most comfortable in the heart of a city or the heart of the wilderness but the suburbs. And you know that modern, you know, you know, strip malls in America's event, just like just I can't can't abide. So my whole pursuit is trying to find my historical. You know what? My whole pursuit in life and everything but ours and Rod and the Alabaster was trying to find my role at this time in history. And you know, my relationship to the rest of civilization, to two men, into women and to and to art. It's just my you know, that's my wife. You know, I think I could say and I can't stop thinking about My next book is about that. But I'm sitting, you know, in contemplation and trying to write

Jordan:   1:34:39
A. It reminds me of the concept that everyone has got a question. Everyone's got a cool question that if there, um, may be brave enough to go in and find, or if they have enough silence, that that's what's so cool about this. Hopefully about this cocoon time that that we're in a za world in solitude and isolation. Hopefully, more people again going to get in touch with the core driving question, which is not How do I get a girl's number, or how do I, you know, go down and do this thing on the strip mall this weekend or wet? Wears everyone hanging out? Where has that part of it? It's not that question The question. The question is like, What's the nature of culture? Because I I don't see that around me. And what's my place in the time of history? We each other like what? What's the nature of the A woman's heart or what is arts that brings goose bumps like, I think most people have a question that's attached to their core like a kind of soul. The question Yeah, almost like admit a mystical tradition would say the question that that pre existed before you were born and that carry deep inside you and your whole life is to uncover what that question waas and to slowly begin answering it. And then by the end of your life, you are the you are. The embodied answer to the question in your legacy is actually the gift of a question answered onto the next people.

Zan:   1:36:05
And most people will never come close to the understanding of what that core question is because of life, way exist. And we we eat, we get jobs and, um, I don't know, but you know, like maybe I'm thinking about what? You know what? How I presented that this idea that my whole pursuit since I was very young is to try and find my relatives, my my relevant place in history Not my role necessarily, but to connect to the flow, you know, to connect to the ancient flow of humanity. And now I land and that flows past me. I can't stop thinking about it, and that is my big question. And that's why I'm so fascinated by, you know, longevity physics, uh, music. It's just there's consumed with it, and I don't know how toe elusive it elucidate that clearly, but it's really that's approaching very closely. What? My whole, you know, uh, motus up a run day is you know what? Why, why my

Jordan:   1:37:15
trying What's my place in the flow? What kind of what's my place in the tapestry? A lot of people ask that kind of

Zan:   1:37:21
Yeah, and is there legacy and is there after life and is there? You know what you know and, you know, the whole molecules spread out And is there something else in the universe? You know? Are we the only, like, these kind of questions consume Munitis fascinated by it. And I'm not gonna answer you discretion any more than anybody else that but I want to know for my own self. When I'm 95 years old, I'm looking back and I scratch myself. I'm thinking, Oh, man, I sure had a shirt. Took a good look at it. She wanted to, you know, just like

Jordan:   1:37:52
the guy you talked about in the last focused, You know, I'm 95 I look back at my works and I tried Teoh have the essence had all of his answers time, space continuum and the nature of beauty and damn, that was kind of failed.

Zan:   1:38:04
I failed thistle. The guys like this is all bent over, is trying to get his poured in his mouth and goes, you know, I wrote these books on on philosophy and our existence of consciousness and, you know, and the duality of mind and all these wonderful books in the fifties and sixties. And I had this idea, You know what to set out Teoh, say something important about this and I feel just incredible.

Jordan:   1:38:29
I want of course, I everyone in our group and community, an audience like the majority of people are trying to find on some level, what is their cool question? Yeah, like what is that? That they're honest path, the kernel of the whisper of the sublime or whatever that lives inside them that they ought to be following. If I'm to obey this thing, that my life is gonna end up being right and just

Zan:   1:38:55
no question, it's the only thing that has value that that inquiry is the only thing. It has value as far as I'm concerned.

Jordan:   1:39:03
So my most. Here's where I get curious about your journey on your life from beginning to now is because I think the majority of our community are going in the other direction to you in a way, which is that trying to find the cool question, trying to live like the alignment meeting, of course. But you've come out of almost pure nature and you've ended up in culture, and you've ended up seeking history in seeking culture and being among the kind of ruined cities of the world on your true debt trajectory. The majority of people growing up nowadays with access to education, the Internet and with this kind of output that we're doing coming from the opposite, where they've grown up skateboarding outside of 1000 year cathedral on probably spending more time than they should, having grown up playing computer games, most behind a monitor or even, um, you know, playing with a phone or an iPad before they're 10 years old. And so dating just happened through a tinder or connection just happened through Ah messenger on, not the face to face. More people will go from the technological world to and trying and then really looking like Why do I feel fragmented? Why it has connection with other people feel a little bit stifled? Why? Why does the city feel somehow unfulfilling? But I've got no other way of finding my deeper connection or integration with him, I said. I feel like something's often it's hard to find what is off because you're urban environment has so much where what is the source of my in a incompleteness? Yeah, and I think you said a lot over the years. Like, um, I disagree with this kind of one nation under therapy, this continual navel gazing. Let's try and go into the emotions of my past and do my psychotherapy and analyze who I was and how he became. Anyway, I wonder if a big part that actually came a big part of your not feeling called or like you need to go down that path of self kind of fixing a surprising because you grew up in an abundance of nature, which has

Zan:   1:41:21
Mm, that's a good point because we were very poor, but we had We're surrounded by nature, you know, and there's part of me that you can never take it out of the nature of your soul. You know, there's part of me. This that is going back to that like, um, like I'm in the cities of the world. But the some part of me that is is really drawn to the, you know, the cabin by the lake chopping wood. And and now I'm not saying I'll do that cause I'm fundamentally lazy, you know, Um, but there's something in me that that so I'm down the technological path to like I'm a technophile. I love technology. I was a computer programmer, and I think it's cool. I'm always watching the newest developments and futurism and stuff, and I like it, you know, Um, but at the same time, I'm really drawn to that. The whisper of the wilderness, the wilderness. Once you have the wilderness in your heart, you know it's never leaves. And and I and I just and any I daydream or a dream about the rustling of the the the poplar leaves, you know, they had this, like, rustling sound that you never hear anywhere else. The north of British Columbia popular and burst trees and the leaves are going like this is turning colors like this because the wind is blowing and you're wrestling and I'll never forget that sound and smell and, you know, sort of thing. So that's in my heart, you know, And I miss it. Um, not I don't miss it enough to migrate anywhere close with. Now, you know, I've been a department, but there's something in it that, you know, it's it's this. It's my connection to this flow of life is really what I've tried to understand all these years. It really is. I felt so just connected, discombobulated and apart from the march of civilization. And yet all I read because I read encyclopedias, right, uh was and I would read these things and I was a kid, like of far away distant lands. You know, Brad Yard Kipling or whatever, right? I would read these things, and I would be in awe and wonder and daydreaming and dream, you know, as always. And so there's something in me that had to go to see quote unquote like anybody if you did before me. And, uh, yeah, that SSM. It's interesting from even that you know, that we brought it up in this context in this way, because that's really the pursuit of whatever and try and understand for myself. Yeah, I'm convinced that there's, Ah

Jordan:   1:43:54
tremendous healing and integrative power of nature that now is You know, if you wanna take a group of people and have them feel more whole and relaxed and grounded, said I have to commune with nature just going in nature put amount of minibus and stick them in nature, for we can see what happens Like when when you're immersed with the freshness and the sound of the rustling of leaves and so on, it becomes very your human urban problems really do fade a long way away. And it someone who is brought up in that I think has got tohave, um a really robustness in their heart and soul, which is I am from this. I'm connected to this. I am at home. If I go out camping for a weekend, I'm not gonna be worried about getting marred on my trainers on my shoes. Um, I'm just gonna be able to like government forage and have an adventure, and we have to cross the river Will be I was figure it out and jump through it, you know, like this kind Of course, said, But I think some of the experiences that I lead a meeting to believe this more and more is you know, that we did a vision quest a few years ago with 10 members of the UN Marassi went off to France and we sat there before. They ask for its in nature. No food, no technology, nothing. And and that's, Ah, talking about this notion of poverty in the ancient Chinese that would go to the edge of civilization that go right all you before it's wet. If you get killed by a bear or wolf, then you and just not meant to graduate. And you were too weak of the child to actually come back to the tribes over there was a real life and death thing. Teoh People actually died in the rites of passage. It was, Ah, well, I'm meeting out, child. Um, but we sat there for four days and four nights, and it's like, wow, in the in the immensity of this, that has a whole lot of work and provisional insight and provision of wholeness and inspiration for people that nothing else does. So in some of the more recent workshops that I've been doing the guys will come in. We'll do a couple of days of coaching. Will have the women in the room will do a whole exploration of what they want. And just when they're cooking will go out to the waterfall and the guy will ever be like, Okay, we're gonna do a bit of play practice getting the body, and then it's gonna be two hours of Do what you want in the waterfall, and the guys would just go off in nature and then they'll come back and be like that was the most honored. Speak to them a couple of months down the line. Yeah, the work. It was amazing that the rial moment it will kicked him was when I stood underneath the waterfall when it was like nature, just all the emotions and the problems I thought I had and all that anxiety that was carrying with me. I stood under the waterfall when it washed the whole thing away. And ever since that happened, yeah, just hasn't been a problem anymore. Yeah, that's great. And it and it's wonderful. I think there's something so cool to this that you've kind of grown up with this lack of history and culture. And so you're your curiosity to get that and what that's ended up giving you for your life has been so immense, I think, going in the other direction. Okay, I grew up in and you know, there's kids in London that I've never seen a cow or don't know where milk come out, which is Larry. It's so for others of us, it's like, How can we go out to the wilderness like where you grow up on but what can be found in there? And I think that's then that's this poverty, the vision

Zan:   1:47:29
quest. That's a very interesting perspective. You know, that's really interesting because I was craving this connection, always craving it and others a craving, the rawness of the existence of communing with nature. And, uh, you're on to something and and we have to make these these pilgrimages right to find the true essence of ourselves and see what we're made of. You know, that's so interesting. People say, Oh, you you're from you know, Vancouver. I'm not really from Vancouver, but I tell people I am because that's what they from way north of Angkor. Well, you Vancouver such a beautiful city. Yeah, the mountains are beautiful all around it, right then in the north is mountains. And if you like roller blading and hiking and mountain biking stuff you're gonna love Vancouver is like the whole city is built on that, you know? But I came out of the wilderness, in the mountains, in the hiking energy, and I wanted to move into the cafe culture of, you know, the modern city, your New York City fastest. But I think it's just it's I love New York City. I love being in you. Come out of Penn Station would take the train, the Amtrak train from Montreal down to Penn Station. 10 hour and you come out of Penn Station and it's like you emerge into this smells and the honking the horns and just a the alive nous of it is just phenomenal. And it's just very much like the relatives for me, right? And there's so there's something in me that it was drawn away from the, you know, the mountains and the quiet streams, which I adore. You know, I sat for hours and hours and hours and decide a quiet stream. All my all my child that you know, and or rivers. We would swim naked in the rivers and try and cross the river without drowning and, you know, and it takes you down 1000 yards before you get to the other side is it's so swift. And we would like we make it. Yeah, we made it. Never go back again. You know, you start to swimming way up here the crossing way up here because, you know, you know, before the wrappings, you got to get across and we didn't know how to swim. We learned how to swim in a slew, you know, like in a in a pond. Scum. You know, Tad wolf, coalfield, like, you know, think. And anyone whatever version swimming we did. So yeah, but then Mike Journey has been into wanting to sit into the said the technological wonders of civilization, which I didn't see. Yeah, credible. That's your perspective. Yeah. I think that's prospective in nature when they believe that

Jordan:   1:50:10
person has had them. Like every every excursion. I know you were expecting a forecast in the past. Yeah, you know, five guys going on a fishing, you might think women so What's the point in that? I'm starting? There's no women other. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm starting to see, like, the power of an excursion. People ask me, like, Why? Why Why do you seem so peaceful in your your mind? A SOCom? Um, I'm like, Well, I've said we went to the Atacama Desert in right in the north of Chile and Bolivia. We did this trip. I story for another podcast. I got kidnapped in Bolivia. It was like kidnapped at gun point. US agrees that held hostage and tied up. And it was, you know, we could have been shot and piston in the mouth. I'll tell that story another day. I remember being tired out on bagging God like, if you know, I didn't believe in God at the time. I get out of this God. If you get me out of this, I promise I'll go straight homes. England's in my mom's house, and I will never go traveling again. You know, I'll get the court for a job that everyone wants to be way rather. They like drinking there in God and telling our story to goes, you know, like a trail we went after that we traveled through the living room. We got to this, um so plants allow their uni come pronounce that without practicing my tongue positioning you, Junie. It's a salt flat. Some people watching would have seen this. I might have even been but in for six months of the year. The whole thing is covered in water. See, you look about you look upon it and it's just water like this as far as the item. Oh, yeah, I have it. Right? Yeah. See, you look up in its blue sky and clouds and you look down and it's blue sky and clouds You have reelected that and then and then the other six months of the year, which is when we saw it. The whole thing turns Teoh kind of like ice slash salt. It's like this. So player and cracks So you've got the way the blue in the sky, but and it's pure blue. By this point, that's no clouds. You look upon it and it's just pure way as far as the eye can see. And then you can do things like take a picture and there's no sense of perspective. So you sit there like that and your friends that their aunt and you know you are picturing you sat on top of a whiskey bottle and the perspective is all jumbled up. So So it's It's like this moonscape lands that that looks like nothing that you imagine what exist on Earth. We went. We went across it for three days and two nights in a Jeep, and it was just beautiful. There was three of us guys over three girls in the we managed to buy red wine, so every night would go out and drinking this red wine under under the immensity of that Onda on top of this thing and there's nothing to do. There's no there's no phone in those ages. There's no reception anyway, so we can do is tell stories to each other. But what we saw, what we did, what we dream for the future. And we came out of that Onda land skin changes from this kind of white thing, and it starts getting mawr, um, does it like So there's little green shrubs here and there, and there are a few lagoons. There's this blue lagoon and a green lagoon and the bluest so blue and the green so green and everything starts going a bit more sandy and rocky. It's kind of like a you know, Luke Skywalker brought up kind of Desert Planet. We ended up on this, the Atacama Desert, which is very famous. It's the highest desert of the world. It's if you want to look at the stars. It's best place in the world because it's a nice desert sky. No lights around it, just observatory. And again we took our bicycles out into the desert and we rode and we got lost on the way home because we didn't. It got dark, and we can see which June or which kind of thing, that we turned their respective, lost our bearings on then, where I'm shitting myself for a good half an hour because there's nothing in the sky and it looks like it's gonna be pitch black and the moon comes out from over the horizon. It's just massive, beaming Moon and the stars of Full. It's like every concert this does. It doesn't have any beautiful, does it? No cloud over goes past it, Um, so we cycle back. I think there's like, Yeah, the three guys and three girls on bikes. Ondo, where we get our salvation by the light of the moon when we come back to town And, yes, about a red wine waiting in a nice meal. And it's like

Zan:   1:54:46
so part of you went into the wilderness in your life like you. Many times you migrated into an isolated type of, you know, away from civilization.

Jordan:   1:54:58
Yeah, I've had a lot of excursions, which has been beautiful, but I've never kind of grown up. Will spend a year of my life grounded in nature. You know where I would keep it in kind of world and style and be self sufficient on the land will grow up in adventure and the kind of you know, the trees and the indigenous Children of my friends. And she could sing shots like, No, I don't have that in my head. And I think the last part of my life is I believe, that there's something about I think we've formed like us, our psyche and who we are and how is showing up is in grand pop, formed by the people that we have relationships with the cultures that were immersed in the history that we've been privy to and then the nature that were also in communion with. And it's like, as they say, if if, If you go into a room and everyone in that room is our interest in the new and you get to hear those stories and absorbed that he become the aggregate of the people that you surround yourself around nature as well, like if you're someone that that has seen some amazing things like that landscape is, if I want to meditate or calm my mind, I can just remember to calm. And it's like an enka in my spirit of like, I know what it's like to be on the highest desert. The world would just stare out and have the pure sky like it's always and forever with me. I think that the second part of my life is gonna be heading out into the most extreme landscapes possible. I don't coffee culture, and you know, there's another fancy coffee shop with another. Oh, your beans were ground and you grew up in Cambridge. Here's another philosophy book on my iPod. Um, but I I see myself was moving more into this. Some intrepid kind of explore rascal architect. I want to see the Himalayas on DSI. What is it like Tibet? What is it like the desert of Pakistan? Silk Road? Yeah, I think it is. And I think that's fascinating, then. Yeah. You want to expand your mind? Something about that?

Zan:   1:57:08
Your real adventurers? No. Yeah. You would have been in the in the darkness of Africa 200 years ago. Slept

Jordan:   1:57:16
in. And they got been in the darkness of Africa's seven years ago, slashing through with its machete. Exactly. Yeah, I think linage archetype wise. I've got this kind of Victorian British explorer. Yeah, And

Zan:   1:57:31
you certainly dio like you have that that interrupted

Jordan:   1:57:36
but finished the day with a cup of tea. A or a gin and tonic? Yeah, exactly. No, no. It's like the

Zan:   1:57:42
British explorers when you don't, like, slaps the way to the jungle and then they set up their tea, sat there with a little table and chairs. You know exactly what they're improbable.

Jordan:   1:57:54
Increase into my linen safari costume? No.

Zan:   1:58:02
Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I understand it, man. You know, like I did the interview with James Marshall from the natural lifestyles. A few weeks ago, right? And you know, and he's seen a traveled and been this dating coach of stuff at and fascinating because he was in Coimbra, Portugal, where we've been

Jordan:   1:58:22
where we've been. Yeah,

Zan:   1:58:24
and he saw farm. I think I got it where they call in Portugal, right? And he bought the farm and and yeah, and he's, you know, got goats and chickens and and he's got plans. And he's And he's been landscaping and planting trees and and recreating all of Grove. And he centered his whole future onto this farm. And it's fascinating to me like there's something I really, really admire that, you know, I think that's yeah, he's is a fantastic, interesting guy, and I could never do it because I can't do chores. I'm lazy. I had, you know, feeding chickens and stuff when I was a kid. And yeah, and I'm not good at. And but it it really fascinates me that he had this impulse to buy a farm. And he's his Holst future centered around it. And

Jordan:   1:59:13
what was his motivation? Sure you explore that?

Zan:   1:59:19
Yeah. He just basically said that, you know, he just he just really wanted to feel it, that the land and, you know t own this piece of land and to and to shape it into something. And in New Year's intentions, there is Lucky's not quitting his his coaching, but it's more. It's you wanted more like have a retreat center there. They want to create something out of it. It's creating an amphitheatre like a like a like a you know, a Greek step amphitheater. And in the olive grove he's got because this plans and its immense I don't mean immense necessarily in size. But the but the you know, here's the well, and here's the and all these things need taking care of, you know, and there's chores. It's It's a life of chores.

Jordan:   2:0:04
So it's This is kind of a self sufficient place, a self sufficient bage, or even on a kibbutz,

Zan:   2:0:11
completely impressed by it. Because I grew up on a farm like that and there was always, you know, offenses to fix. And and the cow was got out when you got to find the cows somewhere in the middle of kingdom come, you know. And we had all this grew up with pigs and cows and horses and, you know, and doing chores of that. And and I and I admire that in him because I miss it. But I can bet I'm too lazy to go and, you know, take that on myself.

Jordan:   2:0:37
Maybe. Yeah, maybe know your story. No, it is amazing like this. This generation of guys that Lipton international life, online business chasing girls, you know, the urban thing. Yeah, You get to a point in your life and this is what I'm talking about. It's about like, Hey, wait a minute. I spent my life traveling, but I've been I've been in the ends of psychology and in the computer and Bill in this kind of writing and everything, the polarity flips and it's like, I want to taste the other side of life And me, like I don't see myself is the farmer, but the like T adventurer cut out and say, like, Wow, I hit mid life. I'm going in a different direction. Like, because at some point is gonna end. I don't want to die and be like I never tried Himalayas all right now, but I have a lot of never went across Siberia. You know, I never saw that cricket tree in Namibia with the

Zan:   2:1:29
wow a lot of respect and admiration for that. I really do like, you know, there's no different

Jordan:   2:1:36
on him as cool

Zan:   2:1:37
between him going into, you know, centering on this thing, this farm and this project in, you know, outside of Coimbra somewhere and you going off into the into, you know, intrepid adventures, I think. What else can you look up to you than that? In my mind, there's there's a that's fast, fantastic, that's living that's in existence that's putting your play your mark in history year What I've been seeking, you know, and and for me, I can see my end days very likely going to be very quiet, sitting somewhere of surrounded by books in a cabin, you know, fire Little Mountain Stream. And I could feel that like that when I'm done with the cities you know and and moving back into, you know, my my roots, which is the very simplicity. I remember when I was a kid living in a log cabin by myself, 13 years old, that was the size of, you know, a piece of plywood. You know, it's like and this is just stove in the in the corner that would last for half. America's is so small it is freezing cold in the winter, and you like the fire and you crawl underneath your quilt, your feather quilt and the fire was out in 30 minutes because it just can't sustain and just freezing freezing cold and you by yourself, and lay in the bed and cried because I was so alone and, you know, scared and ah, a za kid. And all I had was a journal and a kerosene lap and and a feather quilt that was about this thick. That's all my possessions, that I had nothing else. And I would write in that journal, you know? You know, you know, and I would just write stuff like, Oh, the weather was the thermometer outside says minus 23. And I would just write and I saw Wolf today. I would just write these things down, you know. And as a kid I was 13 14 15 16 years old, and I kept a journal for 45 years. I still have it, you know, and it's in these blocking handwriting in my left hand. I'm left handed, And I would just document what you know, the temperature, What I saw that day. And, you know, I made some snowshoes out of willow, you know? And, you know, it was not easy. And and, uh and, uh, incredible. And there's some part of me that's going back there. You know, I feel but way farther in the distance, like I'm not ready to hang up my Spurs yet, you know?

Jordan:   2:4:02
Yeah, Incredible. How can you be anxious about the state of the world when all these things are possible?

Zan:   2:4:08
You can't. And in the perspective of of history that where people have gone through civilizations and communities have gone through way worse devastation. You know, when I was in Florence, you know, like you think about the people that were stuck in Florence in World War two or in remaining where I am, You know, Picasso that's stuck in France. And he had He was what the Nazis called degenerate, degenerate art. And,

Jordan:   2:4:34
yeah, he chose to stay behind in his little cabin that he has a right. Yeah,

Zan:   2:4:40
he just was hoping I'll keep my head down and be quiet. You know, he partly chose, but partly, you know, I mean, he had influential people in states that could have got him out of there, but most people didn't have the choice. They couldn't get paper sleep. So they had really anxiety of real fear of what's, you know, this army's coming in and, you know, and and that wasn't that long ago. So I think about that. You know, Picasso and some of these artists, like, just hunker down and hope for the best. I hope the food isn't gonna run out and hope they were going to get discovered and, you know, and brutalized this sort of thing. And so So how especially we that, you know, we're in this selfies is a self isolation quarantine, and everybody's complaining about, You know, we're like, uh, I have my rights says, you know, Yeah, but, you know, like, man, I tell you, if you look at the perspective history of what people went through before, and you know in 1918 that this, you know, right after World War two, the Spanish flu just devastated the world. And everybody's wearing masks and forced to wear masks and no gatherings over 10 people, you know, same thing we have now. But we think that this happened to us and you know why us anyway, That's respected for it. I think you're going on. Incredible.

Jordan:   2:5:54
We had one you just mentioned. Florence. We have one question from the pilot episode. Why did you go to Florence for a month and stay in a hotel room when you could have stayed, You know, are in a hotel room just up the road. Oh, yeah. The viewer wanted to understand, Like, why? Like these?

Zan:   2:6:13
And, you know, I thought of a bunch of different places to go. I wanted I wanted to go south, But I didn't want to go to a place where, like, a year before I went to vomit Becky, which is to see the Black Sea. And I went there for a month. Right? And I sat there for a month. But I didn't want to go to any place that where there was any distractions outside of my room, and I didn't want to leave the room. So Florence obviously is full of distractions, and you know the history and you know the museum's itself to fuc galleries of that. But I went there because, I don't know. It just appealed to me. I've been there before, but I didn't go there to see Florence. I went there to hide in Florence in, you know, um, room. And I was looking at other places, and for some reason, the flight was cheap. I got it was going to stay in a nunnery with the nuns, but I moved out of There was a rumor Teoh about here. Thanks. You're

Jordan:   2:7:10
the guy from the on the bus to go and sustain this memory? I don't think so. So

Zan:   2:7:15
I went to the hotel next door, but I was speaking of other locations. But But I had to leave. I had to. I had to go on a pilgrimage of some kind, you know, And and? And I left Deanna behind in Bucharest, working on her projects. And so, you know, for a month and there was some part of that separation that I needed to have to because if I was here, if I just got in a hotel down the road, then the temptation in the Thea Pertuan iti to just like man, we really miss each other This, you know, that's I'll sneak over to my apartment serving right? Yeah. And so I didn't wanna have that. I want to be cut off from the world, and I disconnected my Internet, as you know, and I and I I didn't I didn't contact anybody. Didn't answer emails into anything, which I do like. I kind of do that once a year because I want to sit and think and, like, scratch my head and wonder about life, you know, do some writing stuff.

Jordan:   2:8:13
His I noticed from my side of the world the power off man solitude in you in that time So you wouldn't be We wouldn't hear from you from 66 days and then on Sunday you Ryan Sunday? Yeah, way we catch up on a little bit of business. Whatever. So the pilot episode of this this podcast Yeah, you being in Florence and And you have this amazing energy of not having taken any input in from the world orbiting your day today Scenario a day today. Relationships. So you kind of appeared on a Sunday with the purity which was powerful, like This is me in my contemplation. It's a new soiled by yeah, habit of my surroundings and to the point off. So we did the pilot episode and you remember the pilot episode? There wasn't we weren't gonna make a podcast. We were gonna make four promotional videos for essentials program we got on that. And we totally screwed up by just catching up on philosophy. And I'm like, trying to drag that back and make the content for the promotion. It didn't work. That's on the podcast. Is one from that? This YouTube syriza's born from that. And then a few days later, we got back on this phone on. We did videos one and two for the essentials. Yeah, Launch sequence again. Angry support in your isolation, You on fire. You know, I was full of

Zan:   2:9:32
inspiration and even this conversation Jordan like like I'm sitting here biting. They get six oclock in the morning from your 67 o'clock in the morning for me right now, because I did this early and I'm chomping at the bit because I want to. And this really inspired me to get down to the business of working on my book and writing, you know, in the context of what we talked about today and so you need this this fire of collaboration and and contemplation in in conjunction with another, you know, So there's an inspiration that comes from it when you are when you're sequestered. That's what I see is the inspiration of the sequestering and the rial, the battling of the loneliness and isolation, which is which is Everybody's in now, right? But you know, it's it's not self imposed, and I need that. And I need those moments. Teoh do disappear and to is live in privation. You know, one meal a day barely ate one meal a day, and I would I would sit there and just and my room was his hotel room size in the bed behind me, and I'm sitting at this desk and I never left. I would stay in there for three days until the maid find. He says, You know, I'm gonna come before you know it. Is that a dead body? And there is something I have to least leave. So I let her in for half an hour and I go for a little stroll around the block, and then I would have come back and sit day and night. They night blended together cause even have my curtains closed? I didn't know if it was day or night. I isolated off from from the sun, shines birds springing up beside, you know?

Jordan:   2:11:06
So whether it was Florence or no, it was pretty relevant. It just felt the right right time. It was kind of the right place in distance. Yeah,

Zan:   2:11:13
it didn't matter. Like, and I picked Florence for I can't member why? And I was thinking of some other place that I almost went to. I was gonna go to London, actually. Okay, so I thought about London. But I have too many, you know, I wanted to go where they didn't have any friends that existed there something, and not because I would be tempted to contact them. But I just I just you know, I just started. Where could I go and I don't know. And I want to sit in a pilgrimage type of place that was connected to some artistic history. So that's why Florence, you know? Yeah. And that's why London, Because I I'm fascinated by Westminster Westminster Abbey, right? And I always try and migrate there or places with those cathedrals to sit in. You know, like to look up into the lofty heights of it. So I wanted to sit in that reverence to find reverence where I waas. And so Florence has that, you know, Florence is is

Jordan:   2:12:07
so incredible. What I got from doing those four videos with you was seen talking with you on the 1st 2 We were totally inspired. Like your energy was totally inspired. And with it, my energy got inspired. And then we create number one or number two a gray. When we came on, you were like, Yeah, let's finish off three and four when I get back to Romania, and then we opened up and I'm like san. Okay, You ready for number three? And I'm like, I want to really good. Like, let's keep going at this pace. Don't you like? Yeah, back in Bucharest, my email box on Oh, my goodness. The pile of you know, all my friends, like, want to catch up with me and I've got stuff that they've been waiting to tell me, and all of a sudden it was like the Have it and the day to day, like, I know you love your life in Bucharest in your chosen, that seekers, You're inspired by every even. Still, it's full of habit. Yeah. Medications, Yeah. Remove a man from all that and put him in solitude in an inspiring place. Like I'm seeing the the level of fire. Like I came back to my my old purple cabin in Thailand last summer, months before a delay came back. So I was there alone in that house, and it was rainy season. So some days I couldn't go out because it was 24 hours a day kind of monsoon type stuff. I just said, Hold up. I got on extremely high kind of vibration productivity, inspiration created during that period. And as soon as she came, it was amazing when she came. And then after a while, the conference at home, having a girl in the bed. Yeah, I won't do that extra painful exercise that I do when I'm alone. And, yeah, my energy just kind of with it. And I got a bit more in the comfort zone of being with my woman. And there's something about that that isolation, solitude, that, um, yeah, I mean, that's necessary.

Zan:   2:13:59
I highly recommend it for anybody who wants to understand anything about their life, to self isolate and and, you know, go into the wilderness. 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness, Man, that there's a reason that, you know, I really, really zoo most incredible thing you can do you come out with brimming with ideas and and hope and and an abundance thinking, You know, you really dio

Jordan:   2:14:24
But it has to be self isolation without your thou Internet. Yeah, without Ezra the YouTube playlist. And

Zan:   2:14:33
yeah, it's not just like sitting around, you know, which is what? You know, This this quarantine isolation is mostly for us, including me here. Like I'm sitting with Dan and we sit in the evening, we talk a lot, and, uh and I'm not secret productive because of the, you know, the energy in the air of this uncertainty and stuff at this, You know, I'm not focused in productive, but I'm also saying, you know, that's the way it is. I don't beat myself. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Relaxed in it. I hang out with my girl. Look out the window, see what's happening. See if there's anybody out there in this ghost town and then you know, Hang out with my girl of it worked. What else is there? Life

Jordan:   2:15:15
cycles of the moon, right? There's gonna be a time when Jupiter is in the right house and Saturn has come around in the right angle. And then everyone in the world will get productive. And that's where you launch your amazing thing and get my old It's all it's happened. Many times is it's never happened in my lifetime, but has happened many times.

Zan:   2:15:33
Exactly exactly. All right, so there you go. Great. Let's wrap up. Yeah, Perfect. That is good. It's energizing to be I'm inspired and I want to go on right now. You know, right. This concept of this point in this flow of history, it just blows my mind. I can't stop thinking about so

Jordan:   2:15:58
you're You're in your office, right? Recording this. So you have to pick up your book and just get on with that.

Zan:   2:16:03
Yeah, you might have in the studio that I rent, Nick. Next, you're close to my apartment and I married him.

Jordan:   2:16:11
Cool. I'm going. Teoh, get some breakfast and take a dip in the pool. Wonderful. Nice life. Thank you. Get Could be productive tomorrow. Yeah. There you go. You know what else is life? Is there? Yeah. Three days march,

Zan:   2:16:32
eat, drink and be merry And loves a girl you're with, You know, what else is there? Yeah. Yeah. OK, Excellent. Um, good talking to Jordan, and I'll talk to you again soon. I hope everybody enjoys a Siri's sign up for our subscribe. How do you do that? Subscribe to our channel? Because we want put out this regularly and it's gonna be a It's gonna be a rambling conversation about whatever she's on her heart. Really? Right. And

Jordan:   2:17:00
yeah. And today, today, today has been very long and very rambling and with a lot of different sections and topics I would love to hear What, what? What you got what was most impactful for you as a viewer. Um, what insights you're getting? Yeah, how this might have shifted or giving you something

Zan:   2:17:18
is your comments will inform our future ramblings. Sure. Yeah. Subscribe and comment. Share it. You know, so other people can see it because we don't subscribers beautiful. All right, thanks. Your

Jordan:   2:17:32
see you next time